Here is what I was referring to
PROJECT DEFINITION
"The midrange horn shall be a custom built wood horn based on the geometry of the JBL H9800 BiRadial ™ horn and incorporate the 045Be UHF horn in the upper lip."
Here was a very imprssive clone of that horn.
Walnut H9800
PROJECT DEFINITION
"The midrange horn shall be a custom built wood horn based on the geometry of the JBL H9800 BiRadial ™ horn and incorporate the 045Be UHF horn in the upper lip."
Here was a very imprssive clone of that horn.
Walnut H9800
JLH used to make tangerine phase plugs for his cone mid drivers .They are little complicated but doable. The only reason to use low fs cone (36 Hz is not so low actually ) is TONE. Where are you going to find the tone quality of Altec 803A (not B) or 515 or handful other drivers in modern stiff drivers ? I haven't heard anything remotely close. The compromise you'll have to live with is high pass midbass channel in order of not raping the horn with bass from mentioned driver. Warm Regards, W
Yes, I was referring to a midrange horn like the fellow was talking about - he was crossing at 600 hz and above. The Audax PR17 he mentioned will have better tone then the Altecs in that range if used in a good horn. For bass I like to use eight or ten in drivers with a high FS, big magnet and stiff suspension. The 15's seem to not be as strong structurally when used in a deep throat and the horns tend to be shortened compared to a smaller driver. For deep bass below 80 Hz 15's and 18's work good. Most people using the Altecs use combination vented cabinets with short front horns , I find those are poor compared to straight front horns but to each their own
I don't find anything to disagree in this 
It's true that those old 15" are hardly useable but there are worse compromises and solutions around. The best midbass I heard was from K-Horn loaded with altec 803A ~40 hz Fs (stiff roll off suspension not accordion B type ) in 50-180hz Range .It definitely needed a pair of subs and honky upperbass horn with preferably 6-8" driver and than another 2-3 channels in addition to new house ,career and wife (not to mention falling apart 12 years old car cuz all the money spent on drivers
It's true that those old 15" are hardly useable but there are worse compromises and solutions around. The best midbass I heard was from K-Horn loaded with altec 803A ~40 hz Fs (stiff roll off suspension not accordion B type ) in 50-180hz Range .It definitely needed a pair of subs and honky upperbass horn with preferably 6-8" driver and than another 2-3 channels in addition to new house ,career and wife (not to mention falling apart 12 years old car cuz all the money spent on drivers
Reminder. There is no need to quote the entire post just above yours.
Why is it people to offense to imagined things here? I said the Altecs won't be as good above 600 cycles compared to an Audax PR170 in a mid horn. Our conversion IS about midrange horns used higher then where the Altec works best..
There are plenty of modern 15's that I prefer over the old Altecs (I have 416, biflex, 515G, and 3156 here) but who cares? It's your system not mine.
There are plenty of modern 15's that I prefer over the old Altecs (I have 416, biflex, 515G, and 3156 here) but who cares? It's your system not mine.
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Its ok. Just trying to lighten the mood. 
Not offended in the least. Makes perfect sense that smaller diamter drivers may do better above 600 for no other reason than directivity matching. That being said, lot of folks like the sound of big diaghram speakers that far up where all the meat of muscic is. I am interested in the 15's you like better, as I am just beginning my horn journey and experience is quite a money service.
How bout a good deal on those terrible 416's
Not offended in the least. Makes perfect sense that smaller diamter drivers may do better above 600 for no other reason than directivity matching. That being said, lot of folks like the sound of big diaghram speakers that far up where all the meat of muscic is. I am interested in the 15's you like better, as I am just beginning my horn journey and experience is quite a money service. How bout a good deal on those terrible 416's
Who is trashing Altecs ? (pulling my guns out There are things that they do extremely well , well enough and average and the art is to maximize on their strengths and avoid weak-er spots if possible. I'd take old altec over any modern 15" in a heartbeat if I had to make that choice. Best , L
(I have 416 -8A ,403A , 420Y 15" biflex , 515B , and in work 416 A's -f.c I didn't realize I have so many
There are things that they do extremely well , well enough and average and the art is to maximize on their strengths and avoid weak-er spots if possible. I'd take old altec over any modern 15" in a heartbeat if I had to make that choice. Best , L(I have 416 -8A ,403A , 420Y 15" biflex , 515B , and in work 416 A's -f.c I didn't realize I have so many
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Its ok. Just trying to lighten the mood.
How bout a good deal on those terrible 416's
I like the Altec 416, it is far from terrible and i like them in a vented box used up to 800 hz crossed to a good tractrix horn and 1" compression driver. My Altecs are not for sale i horde speakers.
A real sleeper 15 that is modern is the Celestion 1530. They are better then the Altec in the midrange when I compe them but won't go as low in a bass reflex. There are others, Eminence Delta 15, peavey 1508, TAD 1601, JBL 2225, all have a place where they are good, many others, the 515G Altec I use in a folded bass horn mono system up to 300, it is excellent for that
I would say some of the differences between some of the older and newer large cone drivers were the efficiency that the old driver had to have to work with the lower powered amps available at the time. It is the difference between a light weight cone and a very heavy damped cone used in most professional application. Now we have very stiff suspensions to handle the power loading and heavy cones for both power handling at elevated level and larger motors to handle high power. Some of the m-roll surround used today are so stiff it is unbelievable. One company that I never seem to see mentioned here is the McCauley line of pro audio speakers, another high power handling speaker. The TAD cone loudspeakers are very much the analogous of a JBL as they had the same designer. The TAD 15" are really a very good copy of the JBL 2225 at a much higher cost.
yes, some older drivers surely deserve their place in modern hifi systems, - many modern drivers are very good too, many are the lower end from pro manufacturer where power handling isn't the emphasis
here is a modern compression driver that I like a lot for high treble - it's from Celestion too.
Compression Drivers / Neo - CDX1-1425 - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers
here is a modern compression driver that I like a lot for high treble - it's from Celestion too.
Compression Drivers / Neo - CDX1-1425 - Celestion - Guitar, Bass & Pro Audio Speakers
Never had one of those - it looks to be a smaller magnet version of what I have with slightly lower sensitivity and power handling. If you don't need the efficiency and don't crank to super loud levels it more than likely is a great treble driver. I recommend using these little drivers from 5K up regardless of what the manufacture says. If you want to crossover lower and sacrifice the top octave extension a little try the Dayton polymide 250 driver at Parts Express. It's around 50 dollars and sounds pretty darn nice down to 1200 HZ in a good horn.
I have used the JBL 2470 and TAD 2001 down to 500. Many others 800 or 1200. Using a horn that loads it properly is recommended though - Here is the Dayton 250 polymide driver - reflections above 10k are bad - it sounds good 1.2K up even in a short horn like the SEOS waveguide. That's what it was in when I measured this
Attachments
ok, thanks. i have a pair of the jbl CD horns, the ones in the studio monitor, and want some nice drivers for them. don't like the harsh sound typical of most horns.