Russell Dawkins said:
That's serious. Looks like it has to be used in nearfield to qualify as a sub.
My Uncle and I have been working on a NEO magnet full range planar for about 5 years now - He is an old school electronic engineer who was an Altec addict that switched to Magnepans - We now have enough N35 magnets to build a pair of 2 way magnepan sized panels and are still debating between wire or aluminum ribbon conductors, ect.... I imagine these should be up and running by the middle of the summer 2012.. he's in his 70's so it's a pretty slow road.
Very interesting -
"The materials used are not organic origin (rubber, foam from various oil products are disaggregating after 10 or 15 years), damage due to aging are excluded interior materials (aluminum, glass vibrates, magnets , iron, wood…).
So what are they using?
Variac said:
Magnatar,
While his english isn't the best, it is even more confusing when you quote him wrong
I'm pretty sure he is saying that he uses aluminium, fibreglass, magnets, iron, wood..
He did quote him correctly - it would appear that he has since changed the wording.
Its funny that I "found" the site myself 2 days ago while browsing a 6 Moons listing. AND that I had similar problems with understanding that particular phrase.
Magnetar:
its now as Variac has quoted - i.e. that aluminum, fiberglass, magnets, iron and wood are the materials used. (..though of course wood is in fact organic - but its likely used for cosmetic purposes only.)
Audition request Ariel or ME2 in SF Bay Area
Mega apologies for being off-topic, but w/ such short notice I thought this was the best thread to post.
I'm available only morning of Saturday 12 January & maybe morning of Monday 14 January in the San Francisco Bay Area if anyone might be kind enough to allow a 15 minute audition of their Ariel &/or ME2.
I live in north Utah & figure I'm more likely to get a bite in the Bay Area.
Thanks, & please return to your normal routine!
435 754 5097 call anytime
Mega apologies for being off-topic, but w/ such short notice I thought this was the best thread to post.
I'm available only morning of Saturday 12 January & maybe morning of Monday 14 January in the San Francisco Bay Area if anyone might be kind enough to allow a 15 minute audition of their Ariel &/or ME2.
I live in north Utah & figure I'm more likely to get a bite in the Bay Area.
Thanks, & please return to your normal routine!
435 754 5097 call anytime
Beyond the Magnepan
I think building one to work would take a bit of trial and error (something I'm good at) , maybe not as much as as getting a 'Super' Magnepan to work though because the planar sub has limited bandwith. The magnets really aren't that expensive now - I think a DIY single ended quasi ribbon (like a magnepan) two way with high sensitivity would be a nice project to tackle. With all us 'know it alls' here we should start a thread Beyond the Magnepan and go at it......
ScottG said:
It is an awesome looking design - makes me wonder what the distortion levels are like..
(..to bad I don't have that kind of cash to spend- otherwise I'd probably find myself forking over the green for a pair.
)
I think building one to work would take a bit of trial and error (something I'm good at) , maybe not as much as as getting a 'Super' Magnepan to work though because the planar sub has limited bandwith. The magnets really aren't that expensive now - I think a DIY single ended quasi ribbon (like a magnepan) two way with high sensitivity would be a nice project to tackle. With all us 'know it alls' here we should start a thread Beyond the Magnepan and go at it......
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Magnets, wire, mylar and frame.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Re: Sobering Article in Rolling Stone - High Def Audio
What we need to do is to form a motivated group of people with backing by the musicians / performers / recording engineers / music lovers / audiophiles to collectively create a standard licensed format- maybe call it Hi Def Audio or HDA (similar to THX in being a licensed format for self monetary support) that would set the rules for modern recordings
Lay down the law on compression, mixing, frequency response, miking and mastering techniques, ect... - use the license money to promote the quality of the playback, deeper music appreciation, ect. and educate people on the benefits of high quality music playback
If there is a will there is a way!
Lynn Olson said:
What we need to do is to form a motivated group of people with backing by the musicians / performers / recording engineers / music lovers / audiophiles to collectively create a standard licensed format- maybe call it Hi Def Audio or HDA (similar to THX in being a licensed format for self monetary support) that would set the rules for modern recordings
Lay down the law on compression, mixing, frequency response, miking and mastering techniques, ect... - use the license money to promote the quality of the playback, deeper music appreciation, ect. and educate people on the benefits of high quality music playback
If there is a will there is a way!
Re: Re: Re: Gradient Helsinki 1.5
..and you would be correct, I was wrong.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?PHPSESSID=3kon0qub83ivq7vd85n9ss5454&topic=49585.0
Clearly from that 2nd picture its a dipole. I'm guessing what that forum isn't getting is the concept of polar rotation.
I don't think though that it has anything to do with corner loading per se. (..though again of course I always could be wrong.)
AJinFLA said:
..and you would be correct, I was wrong.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?PHPSESSID=3kon0qub83ivq7vd85n9ss5454&topic=49585.0
Clearly from that 2nd picture its a dipole. I'm guessing what that forum isn't getting is the concept of polar rotation.
I don't think though that it has anything to do with corner loading per se. (..though again of course I always could be wrong.)
Sica
Lynn ... Jensen suggested this for my UB waveguide. http://www.sicaspeakers.com/12K3.pdf
Looks good for OB if not too stiff. Not as efficient as I would like, but beggers ...
Zene
Lynn ... Jensen suggested this for my UB waveguide. http://www.sicaspeakers.com/12K3.pdf
Looks good for OB if not too stiff. Not as efficient as I would like, but beggers ...
Zene
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gradient Helsinki 1.5
Interesting. But is that Gradient at CES, or electronics manufacturer X, using their speakers in that room? Still believe it's primary intent is smaller Euro rooms, where corner placement might be dictated.
Jorma Salmi is a designer who knows what he is doing (near top IMHO). Not sure why he wouldn't use a coax for MT, but I'm sure he has his reasons for that particular design.
The polar opposite of the brain dead designs that make up about 95% of speakers I see pictured at the show (that Audiocirce site had a ton of pics). Some of them sure look pretty enough to sound good to audiophiles though.
cheers,
AJ
ScottG said:
..and you would be correct, I was wrong.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?PHPSESSID=3kon0qub83ivq7vd85n9ss5454&topic=49585.0
Clearly from that 2nd picture its a dipole. I'm guessing what that forum isn't getting is the concept of polar rotation.
I don't think though that it has anything to do with corner loading per se. (..though again of course I always could be wrong.)
Interesting. But is that Gradient at CES, or electronics manufacturer X, using their speakers in that room? Still believe it's primary intent is smaller Euro rooms, where corner placement might be dictated.
Jorma Salmi is a designer who knows what he is doing (near top IMHO). Not sure why he wouldn't use a coax for MT, but I'm sure he has his reasons for that particular design.
The polar opposite
of the brain dead designs that make up about 95% of speakers I see pictured at the show (that Audiocirce site had a ton of pics). Some of them sure look pretty enough to sound good to audiophiles though.cheers,
AJ
Hello all, This is a little late, but I've been out of town for 3 weeks. About 30 (or so) posts back cone tweeters were mentioned. I've been listening to them for over 40 years and I like them over domes, but it's hard to find any new ones. I prefer open back for dipole use. Anyone know of a source other than e-bay or the thrift store?
Hi
The topic of Doppler genererated intermodulation distortion is something pretty interesting and I adopted my earlier spreadsheet with the functionality to import and process any measured or simulated speakers.
Exported data of the beautiful simulation software "Hornresp" from David J McBean can be imported almost directly.
http://members.aon.at/kinotechnik/diyaudio/dipol/doppler_intermodulation_distortion.xls
Now its very simple to check open baffle against closed box or horn and wave guide.
Have fun !
Michael
The topic of Doppler genererated intermodulation distortion is something pretty interesting and I adopted my earlier spreadsheet with the functionality to import and process any measured or simulated speakers.
Exported data of the beautiful simulation software "Hornresp" from David J McBean can be imported almost directly.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://members.aon.at/kinotechnik/diyaudio/dipol/doppler_intermodulation_distortion.xls
Now its very simple to check open baffle against closed box or horn and wave guide.
Have fun !
Michael
Drivers
It seems like driver selection is still way up in the air. Why not put these into the mix...
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/1500al.html
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/435be.html
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/ut045be.html
They aren't really cheap, or even affordable...but they probably sound nice.
C
It seems like driver selection is still way up in the air. Why not put these into the mix...
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/1500al.html
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/435be.html
http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/ut045be.html
They aren't really cheap, or even affordable...but they probably sound nice.
C
The 435Be is the most interesting of all, and there is no direct equivalent - the process TAD uses to form their Beryllium diaphragm is different (vapor deposition vs JBL's preformed sheets). I'd still use a Tractrix or LeCleac'h waveguide instead of JBL's horn, though - BiRadial horns are optimized for coverage, not impulse response.
Good article here on the development of the 435Be. The sonic inferiority of Titanium diaphragms compared to Aluminum is discussed with refreshing frankness, along with the surprising admission that "both aluminum and titanium compression driver diaphragms are in breakup for much of their response".
Diaphragm breakup means high distortion, chaotic wavefronts coming out of the phase plug, and non-minimum phase FR deviations - all bad things. To examine one point alone, if the diaphragm is in breakup, that means different portions are out of phase with each other, instead of emitting coherently.
This invalidates the underlying design assumptions of the phase plug, which in turn means that the wavefront emerging from the phase plug is no longer coherent and uniform. If the wavefront isn't uniform entering the horn, it will certainly be in much worse shape by the time it leaves the horn with additional diffraction artifacts added in. Thus, a frequency response with many small deviations, polar response with narrow artifacts, and time response that takes a long time to settle to zero. All from diaphragm breakup.
I'll grant that soft-dome tweeters are in breakup over much of their range as well, but that's a bit different - the damping goo spread onto the silk dome diffuses the resonances into a very fine-grained pattern, and there is no phase-plug assembly and horn to magnify small departures from coherent radiation into big ones. And it's no secret that pushing a soft-dome tweeter into 100+ dB SPL's is not a good idea from either a distortion or longevity standpoint.
Good article here on the development of the 435Be. The sonic inferiority of Titanium diaphragms compared to Aluminum is discussed with refreshing frankness, along with the surprising admission that "both aluminum and titanium compression driver diaphragms are in breakup for much of their response".
Diaphragm breakup means high distortion, chaotic wavefronts coming out of the phase plug, and non-minimum phase FR deviations - all bad things. To examine one point alone, if the diaphragm is in breakup, that means different portions are out of phase with each other, instead of emitting coherently.
This invalidates the underlying design assumptions of the phase plug, which in turn means that the wavefront emerging from the phase plug is no longer coherent and uniform. If the wavefront isn't uniform entering the horn, it will certainly be in much worse shape by the time it leaves the horn with additional diffraction artifacts added in. Thus, a frequency response with many small deviations, polar response with narrow artifacts, and time response that takes a long time to settle to zero. All from diaphragm breakup.
I'll grant that soft-dome tweeters are in breakup over much of their range as well, but that's a bit different - the damping goo spread onto the silk dome diffuses the resonances into a very fine-grained pattern, and there is no phase-plug assembly and horn to magnify small departures from coherent radiation into big ones. And it's no secret that pushing a soft-dome tweeter into 100+ dB SPL's is not a good idea from either a distortion or longevity standpoint.
Center Speaker
Gentlemen,
I don't recall seeing center speakers discussed in this (lengthly) thread.
I would like to spread out my OB speakers for furniture placement reasons. What are the pros & cons about using a center OB speaker?
If it is a reasonable addition, I remember(from my younger years)there were various ways to wire it, all with different disadvantages. Any wiring suggestions?
dobias
Gentlemen,
I don't recall seeing center speakers discussed in this (lengthly) thread.
I would like to spread out my OB speakers for furniture placement reasons. What are the pros & cons about using a center OB speaker?
If it is a reasonable addition, I remember(from my younger years)there were various ways to wire it, all with different disadvantages. Any wiring suggestions?
dobias