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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 25th October 2013, 08:34 PM   #9451
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by badman View Post
It doesn't let you look at multiple angles simultaneously, however, which would be a big plus.
But you see this is precisely what is required - its not optional. And it has to work with real components and all their parasitic aspects. The resolution is also a factor and this requires some serious work so as not to do too much smoothing.
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Old 25th October 2013, 09:15 PM   #9452
KSTR is offline KSTR  Germany
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LSPCad is one of the best tools for passive as well as active XO design and emulation I know of, and not overly expensive. Especially the realtime features are extemely helpful, change a component or parameter and immediately listen to the effect while the music (or measurement, for double-checking) is running.

EDIT: it really reduced our prototyping cycles and costs to zero (except building the cabinets and initial in-situ driver measuring)

Last edited by KSTR; 25th October 2013 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 25th October 2013, 10:04 PM   #9453
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post
..Very few digital front ends were listenable; I was surprised when returning home that I preferred my modest $1200 Monarchy DAC to just about anything I heard at the show. DSD128fs (double-DSD) source material flattered any system, but in direct comparison, LP's and tape still sounded better ... and exactly how many DSD128fs downloads are there, anyway?
..
To this day the best digital (non-high "rez") I've ever heard was from the original Theta gen. III.. about 20 years ago.

I forget which DAC it used, but remember that it was a 20 bit current dac from either BB or AD. The analog out was also excellent. The only thing it really needed was a better power supply for each portion of the DAC, and a better input structure and timing. (..it was still a bit "thin" and noisy sounding - or not quite "analog" enough, which I *think* was mostly a product of the power supply.)

For almost a decade after reading about all the "new and improved" DAC's to come along, I'd go down to take a listen at the various "hi fi huts" - and it *always* left me wondering where the "improvement" was, (most of the time being substantially worse) - and it even included Theta's own "new and improved" models and the majority of high "rez" format/players.

I couldn't afford the thing at the time it came out new.. but it was available later for less than half of the near 4k original price on the used market about a decade later, but I was "sure" that something better would be available. I'm not "sure" at all now, but I can only hope that the memory of it is simply an over-inflated one. Oh well, it's not like this sort of lament doesn't happen in other areas of life as well (..and often with far more meaningful consequences).
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Last edited by ScottG; 25th October 2013 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 25th October 2013, 10:07 PM   #9454
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by KSTR View Post
LSPCad is one of the best tools for passive as well as active XO design and emulation I know of, and not overly expensive. Especially the realtime features are extemely helpful, change a component or parameter and immediately listen to the effect while the music (or measurement, for double-checking) is running.

EDIT: it really reduced our prototyping cycles and costs to zero (except building the cabinets and initial in-situ driver measuring)
Yes, the only "only the fly" crossover-loudspeaker design & implementation software packages that I know of are LSPCad and Soundeasy.

If for this one particular feature alone they are worth their cost many times over.
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Old 25th October 2013, 10:14 PM   #9455
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
But you see this is precisely what is required - its not optional..
I believe that Leap 5 can provide this.

As to the quality of the simulation - don't know.
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Old 26th October 2013, 09:49 AM   #9456
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Good audio reproduction works at any sound volume, it can be whisper quiet or starting to rattle the windows - what alters, subjectively, is the intensity, or impact of the sound -- for me, the volume control should be almost irrelevant, it's merely a way of adjusting the level for convenience to suit where one's listening from, and the mood of the moment.
I agree, keeping common concepts, cone materials, sensitivity, energy radiation and loading techniques as similar as possible in your speakers puts the icing on the cake You can have live in the room reality at any volume level. These drivers work well to mate a bass horn to a small format compression driver when loaded in a good midrange horn. These have a six inch aluminum diaphragm
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Old 26th October 2013, 02:00 PM   #9457
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Good audio reproduction works at any sound volume, it can be whisper quiet or starting to rattle the windows - what alters, subjectively, is the intensity, or impact of the sound -- for me, the volume control should be almost irrelevant, it's merely a way of adjusting the level for convenience to suit where one's listening from, and the mood of the moment.

Less than optimum audio usually has one or some of the following characteristics: it only sounds 'right' at a certain volume, softer it's bland, louder it starts becoming irritating; or, it sounds 'good' from a distance but the closer you get to the speakers the more various unrealistic or unpleasant artifacts are noticeable; or, it sounds great at low key, 'nice' levels but once a certain volume level is reached this quality starts to disintegrate and a steady progression into becoming a typical PA system starts to take place.
Yes, I concur with this. A system should be designed to deliver for domestic purposes to give the softest to the loudest level required with appropriate headroom at a very high quality of reproduction.

PA is different. Whatever anyone says, PA cannot reveal the subtlest repro. of the best small systems, but it will give the slam and pretty good quality to boot. It cannot deal with the low level repro because it cannot cover the wide range at highest quality over the widest dynamic range say 140dB. where it does all the loudstuff to the best it is capable of.

Surely 2 different sectors.

Does not a very large OS horn driven from a DHT surely set the gold standard at the present for a domestic system.
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Old 26th October 2013, 02:39 PM   #9458
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Originally Posted by boldname View Post

Does not a very large OS horn driven from a DHT surely set the gold standard at the present for a domestic system.

That can be argued to infinitum.
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Old 26th October 2013, 04:25 PM   #9459
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That can be argued to infinitum.
The little yellow guy on the posting would be on the 300B horn system.

Yeah, an ongoing debate, and as it should be as the science pushes out further, and maybe changing horses as new designs can be made around new materials.

I think as many do, that we do need at leadt two systems as a basic requirement.

As you say we could go on debating which is our considered best. But other than a few, all the less biased types of designer seem to be changing as the new stuff comes out. This becomes an issue of whether the car has to be below the sound system in order of priorities.
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Old 27th October 2013, 12:06 AM   #9460
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Personally, I do believe that it is possible to achieve, say, 120dB peaks in the home in a completely effortless way, subjectively - which is more than enough for more than 99.9999% of the time. This will be an intensity of sound that will do everything that is needed to recreate the emotional impact of a musical event, in a totally satisfying way - no PA systems need apply, ...

For those who say this can't happen, I heard this being done at the recent hifi show, using off the shelf gear - if one straightforward system can achieve it, then nothing to stop others getting there as well ...
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