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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 9th July 2013, 10:51 PM   #9071
limono is offline limono  United States
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Sold a system back then about 1993? with a 10" down firing driver, 8" front firing driver, 6 1/2" horn loaded mid, Tad 2001 and TAD ET-703 in Rosewood cabinets for $5,000 and made money! Times have changed haven't they!

Do you still have any notes regarding crossover of that speakers
particularly between 2001 and 703?
Regrds, L
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Old 9th July 2013, 11:09 PM   #9072
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Limono,
It has been a long time since I did those. I am sure I have notes somewhere but finding those is another story. If I remember I only used the ET-703 from 10Khz on up.

Steven
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Old 9th July 2013, 11:47 PM   #9073
wrlco is offline wrlco  United States
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Where are we on a release date for Lynn's new system? I don't want to start a new project for myself if his will be ready by New Years of 2014.
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Old 10th July 2013, 12:29 AM   #9074
Pano is online now Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Capt Grogg View Post
I would guess the Radian 4735 are 1.4in...
Correct!
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Old 10th July 2013, 12:38 AM   #9075
g3dahl is offline g3dahl  United States
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ra7,

Sorry, that's the only curve I have of that combination. My measurement setup was used on an old laptop that isn't particularly healthy right now. The only driver comparison I did was with several samples of GPA 288's, which were quite a bit more ragged than the 745's.

I didn't save any full-system curves; never did I really consider the project "finished." Eventually I got burnt out and stopped working on further optimization. Lynn had been a huge help to me along the way, but without the opportunity to hear the results for himself, there were limits to what he could do. I decided to wait for Lynn to get his own project built, and try to benefit from his experience. He has accomplished quite a bit in the meantime. When he has it up and running, I'm hoping to have a listen, which will help me decide how to proceed on my own project.
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Old 10th July 2013, 05:17 AM   #9076
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Thanks Gary!
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Old 10th July 2013, 01:30 PM   #9077
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Originally Posted by 3GGG View Post
Is that a JA4281B in the picture, back right? If so what are your impressions?
Quite OK, but the T500 is way better.
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Old 10th July 2013, 03:52 PM   #9078
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I use a TAD 2002 as a tweeter.
Might not be the best tweeter around,
but it goes together dynamically well with a 288.
That's important.
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Old 11th July 2013, 04:12 PM   #9079
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Originally Posted by Truetone View Post
jzagaja, yes, I still use 50Hz horns, now cut down to 1.7m length and with Vitavox K15/40 drivers, open backed. I find these to be much more in tune with the mid / upper horns - I don't hear any difference or join. ..................They do double bass or piano low notes really well. Not sure anything so uncontrolled could be called accurate, but I have stopped worrying and just enjoy them.

martin
Hi Martin
I've been looking back at your bass solution again & discussing with a couple of the UK guys.
Is this the same 'lighthouse' and wooden L-horn as before, but chopped down to a smaller mouth, or did you change the expansion to suit the Vitavox ?
What does the Vitavox do, that the PM2A didn't - as you were quite keen on the PM2A a couple of years ago ?
I must say I'm struggling with the Fane 8M's on 120Hz wooden horns - there doesn't seem to be much snap & transient definiton, I noted your comments a few pages back, about lighter-coned drivers and low-level detail .
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Old 12th July 2013, 03:32 AM   #9080
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Originally Posted by wrlco View Post
Where are we on a release date for Lynn's new system? I don't want to start a new project for myself if his will be ready by New Years of 2014.
Some time this year, I plan to build cabinets using a pair of side-by-side GPA 416's (16 ohm Alnico version) and the existing Azurahorn AH425's and Radian 745Neo's (16 ohm).

The prototypes in Dallas, with slant fronts, a resistive slot vent in a 4.5 cubic foot cabinet, a single GPA 416 (16 ohm Alnico version) worked well. A 4th-order 700 Hz LR highpass for AH425 & Radian 745Neo, combined with a 3rd-order 700 Hz LR/Bessel lowpass for the GPA 416, provided very flat response.

In principle, most 15" woofers need a broad notch filter tuned to 1.5 kHz, but in practice, it didn't seem to make much difference. I was very surprised the AH425 & Radian 745Neo did not need any equalization at all ... I was quite ready to use a notch filter combined with an overall HF tilt filter.

Switching the high-performance large-format RAAL supertweeter in and out of circuit was more subtle than I expected; then again, there isn't that much content above 10 kHz, and the main task of a supertweeter is to not add HF debris and draw attention to itself. This is where the cheaper Fostex models fall down and the more expensive ones work exactly as they should and sonically disappear. A correctly operating supertweeter should be very subtle as it is switched in and out of circuit.

The supertweeter sounded better as a side branch in the HF circuit, benefiting from the 700 Hz highpass of the compression driver as well as the additional 2nd or 3rd-order highpass at 7 kHz for the supertweeter. Moral of the story, unwanted LF energy does not sound good in either a compression driver or a ribbon tweeter.

Additional thoughts: the attenuation of the HF section was more tricky than I thought it would be. Fixed-resistor L-pads did the job, but I didn't like the subjective impression of dynamic compression and tonal flattening that I heard. The autoformer sounded much better, but less attenuation sounded better as well, even though the sound was out of balance. The setup in Dallas needed something like 13 to 14 dB of HF attenuation to match the single GPA 416. It measured and sounded flat (using pink-noise), but 12 dB of attenuation sounded better, even though it was fairly obviously out of balance.

A pair of 15" woofers provides 3 dB of efficiency gain, as well as 6 dB improvement in headroom (along with reduction of IM distortion), as well as decreasing the required attenuation of the compression driver to the 10 to 11 dB range. The dynamic match would also be better, with the LF drivers closer to the dynamic range of the compression driver.

For reasons that are not clear to me, it's pretty audible when there's a large mismatch in headroom between LF and HF drivers, which draws attention to the 2-way nature of the system.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 12th July 2013 at 03:59 AM.
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