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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 6th July 2013, 10:28 AM   #9011
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Thanks Autotech uses CNC machine to make a mold:

http://autotech.pl/pdf/firma.pdf

JMLC horn requires two molds - one for rollback and one for horn. It is traditional hand layup plus damping layer if required. SEOS-12 is also made out of solid surface (closed mold). Similar waveguide was mass produced by Diysoundgroup in China by using injection moulding.

Your work is beautiful and shows that no fancy tools are required.
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Old 6th July 2013, 01:05 PM   #9012
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Thanks :-). I looked at doing infusion, with a front and back mould, or vacuum bagging, but it was too hard to set up. I think it could be done if one had time and resources to get it right. The next step would be to set up temperature controlled bath and control the process. Composites technology has developed a long way in the aircraft industry, but hard to get beyond traditional layup without big investment. I think your damping layer sounds really good. Few people perhaps realise how much work goes into this.

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Old 6th July 2013, 03:51 PM   #9013
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Truetone,
Being from a tooling background in aerospace I can tell you that the advantage of using those methods for building horn lenses is not going to be that great. Mainly you would have less hassles with any chance of pinholes and the resin content to fiber ratio would change as any excess resin would be removed. But at the same time you would not be using any polyester resin in an aerospace application, everything is epoxy and this rules out using any glass mat, everything is done with only woven fibers rather than random fiber mat materials. Also we do not use gel coats, that just isn't done so you would lose that type of finish, I am sure you have seen carbon fiber parts with the fiber showing and this is what you would be looking at. RTM of the many different methods would also be done this way with no gel coat surfaces. I have done development work in closed tool molding of high speed composites and again there is never a gel coat though you can use an in-mold coating. Tooling would get rather expensive in any of these types of applications and unless you are talking serial molding of high volume not the most cost effective way to go.
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Old 6th July 2013, 08:43 PM   #9014
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Martin btw. do you still use AH-50 bass horn or prefer direct radiator?
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:33 PM   #9015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Pano, if I ever get around to finishing the Altecs and putting the 288 on the jmlc400, you are welcome to have a listen. It wouldn't hurt to have an experienced Altec ear.
When the colorations that we associate with high-efficiency speakers are removed, the sound becomes really transparent and dimensional. Very small changes (one component) in the source electronics become obvious, akin to Stax electrostatic headphones, but instead of the sound being trapped in your head, it's very large and room-filling. One of the more startling effects is the soundstage coming up to your knees, as well as disappearing behind the far wall.

The colorations that are present in horns with time-domain reflections mask the 3D presentation and electrostatic-like resolution that is possible with good compression drivers. It's an interesting experience to hear Altec/GPA tonal vividness without the midrange forwardness (and shout) of traditional 511 and 811 sectoral horns.

You get used to the audiophile special effects fairly quickly, and they fall by the wayside. The main attraction are the shimmering tonal colors, the hallmark of good high-efficiency loudspeakers, and something that is so noticeably absent in audiophile speakers with efficiencies in the 85~88 dB/meter range.

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 6th July 2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 7th July 2013, 09:17 AM   #9016
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jzagaja, yes, I still use 50Hz horns, now cut down to 1.7m length and with Vitavox K15/40 drivers, open backed. I find these to be much more in tune with the mid / upper horns - I don't hear any difference or join. I tried Onkens with same drivers (also had opportunity to try AES TT15M and GOTo 15" drivers on both horns and Onkens) - the Onkens have more 'rock and roll' impact (my son has them and loves them), but the bass horns give you more of what Lynn describes so well. They do double bass or piano low notes really well. Not sure anything so uncontrolled could be called accurate, but I have stopped worrying and just enjoy them.

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Old 7th July 2013, 09:59 AM   #9017
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Pictures plz! I am building a Goto S150. I am at the woodshop now. They will end up being 1.5m and a 1.7m horn would probably fit better than my DIY avantgarde trio midbass horn.
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Old 7th July 2013, 10:39 AM   #9018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post
When the colorations that we associate with high-efficiency speakers are removed, the sound becomes really transparent and dimensional. Very small changes (one component) in the source electronics become obvious, akin to Stax electrostatic headphones, but instead of the sound being trapped in your head, it's very large and room-filling. One of the more startling effects is the soundstage coming up to your knees, as well as disappearing behind the far wall.
I recently fnished an Onetics based SS amplifier that is the frst amp I have built that really achieves this type of presentation. It is my hope that the Altec setup will further improve or enhance this experience.
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Old 7th July 2013, 03:17 PM   #9019
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Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Pano,
If i ever get around to finishing the Altecs and putting the 288 on the jmlc400, you are welcome to have a listen.
Just let me know. I'll drive on over.
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Old 7th July 2013, 11:17 PM   #9020
jzagaja is offline jzagaja  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truetone View Post
jzagaja, yes, I still use 50Hz horns...
We wil test 50Hz hypex t=0,3 soon - for 8, 12 or 15".
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