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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 23rd March 2013, 01:34 AM   #8471
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All of the NEO are rather of the newer designs. My friend was telling me about one of the drivers that has an extremely large diameter ceramic magnet system he seems to like. The problem with Radian is there has been a high turnover of designers and each one wants to change things around so there has been little consistency from year to year. The owner of the company stays the same but behind the scenes things keep changing.

ps. Some of the very early Radian drivers use very poor steel in the motor assembly and this lowered the flux density and caused many problems. It was not low carbon steel that was used. Things have just cropped up over the years that have just cause nothing but problems with a basically good design.

Last edited by Kindhornman; 23rd March 2013 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 05:06 PM   #8472
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1/4 in. is fairly meaningless when doing a phase alignment, but critical for "time" alignment
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Old 23rd March 2013, 06:02 PM   #8473
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Having listened to FR speakers a lot, I am very sensitive to both phase and time alignment. It is one of my biggest worries with this project.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 06:05 PM   #8474
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myhrrhleine,
When checking the acoustic output of a speaker in the freefield, how are you making a distinction between phase and time alignment? Both are a measure of time, phase just given in an angular measurement, but if the phase is lining up the time alignment must also. We are talking acoustical phase angle, not just the electrical angle here.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 07:02 PM   #8475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Olson View Post
The GPA or Altec Alnico version sounds like, well, Alnico, which is really good. Not a fan of ceramic magnets from any vendor.
Just wondering: why not consider the Fostex D1400 1" driver too? Poweful AlNiCo magnet, über-precise and consistent Japanese manufacturing and QC, still reasonable price.
Driver / Horn : Horn Drivers | Speaker Components| Fostex
I have a pair and love'em. Just saying.

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Old 23rd March 2013, 08:30 PM   #8476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
myhrrhleine,
When checking the acoustic output of a speaker in the freefield, how are you making a distinction between phase and time alignment? Both are a measure of time, phase just given in an angular measurement, but if the phase is lining up the time alignment must also. We are talking acoustical phase angle, not just the electrical angle here.
I cannot say for sure about acoustic phase. I know electrical is noticeable. My misunderstanding. Time alignment is very noticeable and was easily perceived when I tried mating FR driver to a woofer.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 09:34 PM   #8477
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buzzforb,
The difference in the acoustic centers of a 1/4" are going to be much greater at high frequency than they will be at low frequency. So the match between let's say a mid-range and a bass speaker with a small shift will not cause the same time misalignment as you will have between the mid and a high frequency device.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 09:51 PM   #8478
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Agreed. My understanding is that ideally you want to be within 1/4 wavelength of the crossover frequency, which naturally becomes more difficult as frequency increases and wavelength decreases. In playing with FR and woofer, I crossed in 150-200 range, so it was non issue. Thankfully the FAr was in seperate box because I had to move it back in vertical plane or the disparity was really obvious. We are talking 1/2" of movement backwards.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 10:36 PM   #8479
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At the 2012 RMAF show, I spoke with the product manager of Materion (formerly Brush Wellman) about their 3" diaphragm for the Radian 745-series compression drivers. They are in development, but no firm date yet.

I've heard from one of the application engineers in Radian that the Neo version of the 745 is quite different than the still-in-production ceramic-magnet version, and took two years to develop. I can't verify that (I don't work for Radian), but the efficiency has gone up a rather surprising amount, and it's not a measurement artifact, either ... it really is in 113~115 dB/meter range.

The response of the Radian 745Neo the AH425 (unlike the published Radian measurements), is the flattest I've ever seen on any horn/compression driver combination, falling within +/- 1dB over the working range, and impulse response within 0.4 to 0.5 mSec, which is pretty remarkable for a compression driver. My best guess is the Radians are going into high-end studio monitors.

http://radianaudio.com//components/c...les/745NEO.pdf

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 23rd March 2013 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 24th March 2013, 12:26 AM   #8480
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Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Having listened to FR speakers a lot, I am very sensitive to both phase and time alignment. It is one of my biggest worries with this project.
Both the Ariel and the new loudspeaker are more "coherent" sounding than full-rangers with whizzer cones (Lowther, Zu, etc.), which have pretty noticeable group-delay problems in the 1~5 kHz region. Full-rangers with single paper cones (no whizzer) have about the same degree of coherency as the Ariel and the new loudspeaker.

My speakers have always had less than 5 to 10 degrees of phase divergence between drivers in the crossover region, which gives an impression of a single driver, even when you're right next to the loudspeaker. The acoustical crossover is also free of peaks and nulls, so there are no sudden phase deviations in the crossover region to steer the polar pattern up and down. (Wilson speakers are notorious for phase deviations in the crossover region ... I can usually hear it across the room whenever I go to hifi shows.)

The closest "coherency" equivalent would be an old-school 12" or 15" Tannoy with the paper cone; tonal vividness is about the same, but the sound is more modern in character, with a bit of Altec flavor in the bass. It does not sound like a JBL at all.

The parts in the crossover do matter, however. Solen caps are strongly discouraged, along with most flat-pack inductors. The Jupiter caps are my personal favorite, but many people have good luck with Janszen and Mundorf (neither are cheap, unfortunately). Ohmite and Mills wirewound resistors are recommended; avoid the cheap sand-cast variety.
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