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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 19th March 2013, 09:46 AM   #8421
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
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Hello,

I am not sure that those "JBL type" horns are in the same philosophy as expressed in that thread...

Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:52 AM   #8422
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Here is what I was referring to
PROJECT DEFINITION

"The midrange horn shall be a custom built wood horn based on the geometry of the JBL H9800 BiRadial ™ horn and incorporate the 045Be UHF horn in the upper lip."

Here was a very imprssive clone of that horn.

Walnut H9800
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:55 PM   #8423
limono is offline limono  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POOH View Post
I find it difficult to get the proper phase plug for cone midrange horns. Whatever I used or built they still beamed too much, that is why I like to go to a well designed compression driver and cross over in the lower vocal range - around 300 cycles. What do you use for your phasing plug for your cone driven midrange? Also when i use cones in horns I try and keep the driver electrical Q low and the resonance high. It never occurred to me to use a low fs (36) cone in a midhorn. Why do you do that?
JLH used to make tangerine phase plugs for his cone mid drivers .They are little complicated but doable. The only reason to use low fs cone (36 Hz is not so low actually ) is TONE. Where are you going to find the tone quality of Altec 803A (not B) or 515 or handful other drivers in modern stiff drivers ? I haven't heard anything remotely close. The compromise you'll have to live with is high pass midbass channel in order of not raping the horn with bass from mentioned driver. Warm Regards, W
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Old 19th March 2013, 02:26 PM   #8424
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Yes, I was referring to a midrange horn like the fellow was talking about - he was crossing at 600 hz and above. The Audax PR17 he mentioned will have better tone then the Altecs in that range if used in a good horn. For bass I like to use eight or ten in drivers with a high FS, big magnet and stiff suspension. The 15's seem to not be as strong structurally when used in a deep throat and the horns tend to be shortened compared to a smaller driver. For deep bass below 80 Hz 15's and 18's work good. Most people using the Altecs use combination vented cabinets with short front horns , I find those are poor compared to straight front horns but to each their own
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Old 19th March 2013, 02:56 PM   #8425
limono is offline limono  United States
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I don't find anything to disagree in this It's true that those old 15" are hardly useable but there are worse compromises and solutions around. The best midbass I heard was from K-Horn loaded with altec 803A ~40 hz Fs (stiff roll off suspension not accordion B type ) in 50-180hz Range .It definitely needed a pair of subs and honky upperbass horn with preferably 6-8" driver and than another 2-3 channels in addition to new house ,career and wife (not to mention falling apart 12 years old car cuz all the money spent on drivers
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Old 19th March 2013, 03:48 PM   #8426
Pano is online now Pano  United States
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Reminder. There is no need to quote the entire post just above yours.
Over-quotes removed.
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Old 19th March 2013, 03:55 PM   #8427
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Man. Now you guys are trashin my Altecs. If they are so bad, tell me a modern 15" replacement that has low mms and will go that low with good midbass extension. Assuming in this case, a MLTQWT enlcosure. None of this horn stuff.
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Old 19th March 2013, 04:06 PM   #8428
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Why is it people to offense to imagined things here? I said the Altecs won't be as good above 600 cycles compared to an Audax PR170 in a mid horn. Our conversion IS about midrange horns used higher then where the Altec works best..

There are plenty of modern 15's that I prefer over the old Altecs (I have 416, biflex, 515G, and 3156 here) but who cares? It's your system not mine.

Last edited by Pano; 19th March 2013 at 05:59 PM. Reason: fixed quotes
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Old 19th March 2013, 04:09 PM   #8429
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Its ok. Just trying to lighten the mood. Not offended in the least. Makes perfect sense that smaller diamter drivers may do better above 600 for no other reason than directivity matching. That being said, lot of folks like the sound of big diaghram speakers that far up where all the meat of muscic is. I am interested in the 15's you like better, as I am just beginning my horn journey and experience is quite a money service.
How bout a good deal on those terrible 416's
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Old 19th March 2013, 04:10 PM   #8430
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Who is trashing Altecs ? (pulling my guns out There are things that they do extremely well , well enough and average and the art is to maximize on their strengths and avoid weak-er spots if possible. I'd take old altec over any modern 15" in a heartbeat if I had to make that choice. Best , L
(I have 416 -8A ,403A , 420Y 15" biflex , 515B , and in work 416 A's -f.c I didn't realize I have so many

Last edited by limono; 19th March 2013 at 04:15 PM.
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