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Old 16th March 2013, 03:21 AM   #8361
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So what happened? Did Olson decide he was not capable to build a horn system to his liking?
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Old 16th March 2013, 04:32 AM   #8362
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What happened was that a lot of people built horn or hybrid horn systems very much to their liking, inspired and informed by the discussion here. I know because I made a quite a few 420 Azurahorns for them and got reports back. I expect many of these systems are still evolving as people learn from the experience.

best wishes to all, and thanks Lynn,
martin
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Old 16th March 2013, 07:26 AM   #8363
DeonC is online now DeonC  South Africa
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I think Lynn is just being his usual meticulous self. He may have added the second bass driver (to increase sensitivity) and is spending time re-balancing the system, or it could be, as has been said, that horn systems just take longer to get the balance right. I am curious too, but will wait patiently. Lynn, OTOH, an update would be much enjoyed, pretty please?

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Old 16th March 2013, 07:41 AM   #8364
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Lynn Olson post ("I do not give great weight to directivity control. I know that Dr. Floyd Toole and Dr. Geddes place directivity control high on their list of priorities, but I must respectfully disagree with them, while agreeing on many other points. I very strongly agree about the importance of uniform and flat response at the listening position...")

Dr. Geddes has performed extensive measurements on controlled directivity and polar response to school us why his Summa OS-waveguide speakers use just a 1" diameter compression driver tweeter. It is necessary(but not sufficient) for a speaker to measure good to sound good. It seems that Dr. Geddes believes the coherent polar response from just one horn all the way up to 20KHz is more important than the higher dynamics from a larger diameter compression driver mid-horn plus crazy placement supertweeter.


Many multi-horn speaker designs seem willing to accept a known "crazy tweeter placement" in favor of 1.4" or 2" compression driver dynamics on a large horn. The stereo illusion is just a Jedi mind trick anyway ... "That is not the horn you are looking for", said Obi-Wan.

I wonder if Lynn will find that a crazy placement RAAL ribbon tweeter next to a 1.4" CD is not as COOL as a Be diaphram on the 1.4" Radian CD.
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Old 16th March 2013, 01:47 PM   #8365
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Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
It seems that Dr. Geddes believes the coherent polar response from just one horn all the way up to 20KHz is more important than the higher dynamics from a larger diameter compression driver mid-horn plus crazy placement supertweeter.
. . . For what it's worth, and by all accounts, the dynamic capability of the Summa (both measured and perceived) is well beyond anything that would ever be reasonably required in a listening room.

It's possible that folks pursuing even greater headroom are doing so because they are hearing HOM's, which can easily create the perception of insufficient headroom. In reality, the drivers are just fine, and the distortion is due to diffraction. Im sure there are other preference reasons as well.

Lynn himself has heard and commented on the Summa somewhere in this infinite thread. Perhaps he will comment per the current context.

-- Mark
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Old 16th March 2013, 02:50 PM   #8366
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The SEOS "waveguides" (like gedey uses) I have sound bad in my room compared to even some ancient horns like the JBL 2350. They don't really load so they have a hard time keeping up in a filly horn loaded system in micro and macro dynamics. I don't think it's a CD issue with the SEOS because I can get similar pattern control with other horns. I think it's because they are poor at loading the driver and sound weak and anemic compared to a real horn. Maybe when used with less efficient woofer as a direct radiator it is not so obvious. I tried that with a pair of good 15's and it was OK but very difficult to live with compared to horn loaded bass with real horn upper range.
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Old 16th March 2013, 03:22 PM   #8367
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. . . For what it's worth, and by all accounts, the dynamic capability of the Summa (both measured and perceived) is well beyond anything that would ever be reasonably required in a listening room.
.......

-- Mark
------------
In all fairness, most horn cabinets (or wave guide, if you insist) will have good to great dynamics. That is pretty much the advantage of a horn (front loaded, compression loaded). Even an average design will do that fairly well. It may have another problems, but that is another topic.
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Old 16th March 2013, 04:00 PM   #8368
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The SEOS "waveguides" (like gedey uses) .
I don't use SEOS "waveguides". Mine are my own desgn.
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Old 16th March 2013, 04:21 PM   #8369
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I don't use SEOS "waveguides". Mine are my own desgn.
IThe SEOS is similar to yours but with less interference from lobing due to the shorter profile allowing closer positioning to the bass driver on the baffle. The point is it doesn't load the driver like a horn, yours or "SEOS."
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Old 16th March 2013, 04:38 PM   #8370
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Pooh,
Where do you get this idea that horn length changes take the basic function of a horn away? Whether it is an old Altec, JBL, or a newer design by Gedlee or the Seos has nothing to do with the fact that they have to follow the same basic physics. Yes the frequency that they're loading may be directed at and the frequency response and polar response may change they are all working as waveguides. To say that any of these designs does not load the driver is folly, without a proper load any compression driver will soon fail due to over excursion if any real power is applied to the device. Mouth size and flare rate have everything to do with loading of the device. You are only shifting frequencies and polar response. If you don't understand that you have no real understanding of a waveguide.
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