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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 30th August 2012, 03:58 PM   #7931
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Originally Posted by Melon Head View Post
I was also referring to your comment regarding clean effortless dynamics over outright frequency response. I have other unpopular experiences as well.
When your fingers (not pick) are directly driving the speakers you tend to notice quite a few things.
Brian Bromberg would be proud, Melon.
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:24 PM   #7932
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If you already have a nice Compression Driver and Horn, I honestly reckon your money is best served doubling up on those GPA woofers rather than spending a large sum of money on super tweeters
Rather than doubling up, the next step is a front horn for the 15 inchers. I've heard that on John's system (inlowsound.com), the dynamics are crazy. It's the same experience as going from 90db/W to 100db/W. With the front horn, you're at 110db/W, and you go, "What have I been listening to so far?"
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:29 PM   #7933
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In my experience, at least with the AH425 and GPA 288H, a super tweeter is necessary, if you want the top octave properly reproduced.
Also, a low pass on the horn helped me get a smoother response and better integration.
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:39 PM   #7934
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Yes of course, but in terms of the return for your money (bang for buck) there is more to be had by improving the mid to low range.
I have been doing measurements to understand more about this and I think the answer is due to the fact that 95% of what you hear (including harmonics) in music happens below 15kHz (if not 10kHz), so your not getting a lot in return by chasing the last 5kHz. In addition to that quite a few people cannot hear that much past 15kHz (it could be money down the drain for some people)
My scanspeak setup is now in the garage in favour of speakers that can't manage greater than 15kHz. It all comes down to the ear wants to hear what the ear wants to hear

Last edited by Melon Head; 30th August 2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:56 PM   #7935
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For a good sense of envelopment (or imaging, as they like to call it), I've found that I need more dispersion than the large horn can manage above 3 kHz. About -6db at 45 or 60deg would be ideal.

OTOH, if you have a hard floor and many reflective surfaces, you can probably get away with the narrow dispersion by crossing the horns in front of the listening position.

There is nothing wrong with the extension (>15 kHz) or the quality of the treble from the large format CD. In fact, it sounds more natural than many tweeters that I've heard. The only problem is the narrow dispersion.
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Old 30th August 2012, 04:57 PM   #7936
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At least with the GPA drivers, there was always the sense that something was missing on the top. I don' t think I could live without a super tweeter.
This was noted also by the few people who heard them.
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:12 PM   #7937
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Did you ever measure the frequency response?
It might be that there is a pronounced hump in the midrange, giving the impression that frequency response does not extend high enough.
This is usually easily fixed by adjusting the EQ either passively or actively
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:14 PM   #7938
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There is nothing wrong with the extension (>15 kHz) or the quality of the treble from the large format CD. In fact, it sounds more natural than many tweeters that I've heard. The only problem is the narrow dispersion.
That is a very good point, I wonder if the Beyma tpl 150 would be better in this regard. I suspect so.
In that case wouldn't you just run the Beyma without the horn?
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:17 PM   #7939
vgeorge is offline vgeorge  Greece
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You can' t setup a system like this without measurements.
You can find more details in my thread here: My island speakers
The AH425 is very flat and there is no need for any sort of EQ.
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:22 PM   #7940
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I will check that out
My experience has been completely different. I suppose everyone is different
I have found that if the shape of the frequency response is right then it sounds very detailed and airy, even though it might only go to 15kHz
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