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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 27th August 2012, 07:27 PM   #7871
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Originally Posted by soongsc View Post
It is true that there are lots of time delayed release of stored energy in drivers. One thing that I have found when using the Ultimate Equalizer from Bodzio Software is that the process of designing crossover using that actually reduces the effect of this delayed release of stored energy resulting in a much cleaner CSD performance. I have to credit Joachim Gerhard to bringing this to my attention.
The driver stored energy thing had been discussed long before we had the UE. I presented these examples many years ago. If you can eq the driver to a specific target then the CSD of the acoustic output will be the same as that of the ideal target, at least at the design point. This was one of the things I used to get Bohdan to pull the DSP out of SoundEasy leading to the UE.
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Old 27th August 2012, 07:38 PM   #7872
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The problem with VLF distortion is that it happens at frequencies where the ear is much more sensitive, and can easily appear louder than the signal itself:

Woofer measurements
Good thing to point out, and one of the key reason huge high output visually dominating subs tend to disappear sonically. This is also one of the reasons isobaric subs work so nicely- even though the even order distortion that they cancel is not tonally offensive, it DOES draw attention to the location of the sub and thus any reduction is highly desirable.
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Old 27th August 2012, 08:47 PM   #7873
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Good thing to point out, and one of the key reason huge high output visually dominating subs tend to disappear sonically. This is also one of the reasons isobaric subs work so nicely- even though the even order distortion that they cancel is not tonally offensive, it DOES draw attention to the location of the sub and thus any reduction is highly desirable.
Compound woofer systems do tend to reduce event order HD. Isobaric systems , not so much.
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Old 27th August 2012, 10:22 PM   #7874
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Well, I've considered using my initials - LTO - as a placeholder until I can think of something better. Karna is my wife, partner, and all-around best friend of 25 years, and Amity is my daughter. After that I run out of names.
How about the name Leira. As it happened, you went back - almost to the very beginning of the hi-fi era in order to advance the art from your previous effort (I am thinking here of the Altec large format two-way). So would it be "back to the future" for the future arieL?
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Old 27th August 2012, 11:46 PM   #7875
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In about 6 months it will be 6 years since this thread started. So how about calling the speaker the Sextenial?
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Old 28th August 2012, 02:13 AM   #7876
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How about Michael, which covers both the present and the old days in Portland
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Old 28th August 2012, 04:15 AM   #7877
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
The driver stored energy thing had been discussed long before we had the UE. I presented these examples many years ago. If you can eq the driver to a specific target then the CSD of the acoustic output will be the same as that of the ideal target, at least at the design point. This was one of the things I used to get Bohdan to pull the DSP out of SoundEasy leading to the UE.
John, while letting the acoustic target match the ideal can improve CSD performance, the ideal target is not ideal. I think this would be more evident if you used a full range driver to do testing. I would like to see someone do this with a full range driver without any DSP.

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Old 28th August 2012, 05:35 AM   #7878
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I would be willing to do that. Can you give further info about it
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Old 28th August 2012, 06:20 AM   #7879
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Well, there certainly is a "Back to the Future" aspect to my projects. It's not anything I planned, it just came out that way. The Ariel drew on the TL loudspeakers I did for Audionics back in 1975 as well as the crossover techniques imparted by Laurie Fincham, the Amity and Karna drew on research about the Western Electric 86A and 92 amplifiers, and the LTO on research about Bell Labs, ERPI, and the original Altec team during the 1930's and 1940's.

What was surprising about these various audio-archeology projects was how much knowledge had been lost over the decades. The monoculture of the 1947 Williamson wiped out prior art in balanced-topology direct-heated amplifiers, and more importantly, the Bell Labs' "Harmonic Equalizer". Some of the more subtle aspects of the early Altec work was lost with the introduction of the cost-saving sectoral horn, followed by JBL's transition from underhung to overhung voice coils, along with the transition to ceramic magnets. There was also a massive loss of fidelity (and visual quality) as the 1950's 70mm 2.35:1 Technicolor widescreen with six-magnetic-track audio was replaced by 1970's 35mm matted 1.85:1 Eastmancolor semi-widescreen with mono optical soundtracks. The THX team at Lucasfilm discarded nearly everything known about quadraphonic sound in the early Seventies, leading to the absurd proliferation of channels and asymmetric soundfields created by an array of loudspeakers with dissimilar radiation patterns.

We can certainly measure and simulate far better than ever before, but many of the technological changes were done for purely cost-savings reasons, and were not technological improvements at all. I also discovered a number of interesting little byways - that Ampex nearly introduced a discrete 3-channel prerecorded tape format in the mid-1960's, that the Altec team went back and forth on the merits of circumferential vs radial phase-plugs, that the lineage of Radian went back to Emilar, and before that, to patents filed by two Altec engineers (Hilliard and Renkus) in 1966, and that Paul Klipsch was using autoformers for horn attenuation as early as 1959.

Speaking of "Back to the Future", here's a neat little picture of Les Paul, the pioneer of multitracking, with a Lansing Iconic in the background. Although taken in the early 1950's, multitracking was to become the standard of the industry in decades to come, and the Iconic harks back the late 1930's.
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Last edited by Lynn Olson; 28th August 2012 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 28th August 2012, 06:29 AM   #7880
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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I would be willing to do that. Can you give further info about it
3" full range driver, since the driver is made to custom order, none are commercially available. I think one could give the Jordan driver a try.

Frequency and phase response after UE
Click the image to open in full size.
CSD
Click the image to open in full size.

Measurement point is same as design point, 1M on axis.
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Last edited by soongsc; 28th August 2012 at 06:31 AM.
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