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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th June 2012, 06:11 PM   #7751
titian is offline titian  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudP View Post
Any body but me hear a Nestorovic Labs system 16? Or, even a system 5? Neither had any trouble with large format symphonic material, or small format Jazz. Rock, not so great, but then rock never entered into the equation.

I was the development engineer for 5 years, for system alterations and I built and thoroughly tested every system. Standard was a 1 1/2 db variation in FR between paired systems, at any given point, and a 3 db envelope. The system 16 sub woofers were capable of 106 db at 16 Hz, with 1 kHz just 3 db astray from that from physically separate satellite speakers.
Just read your post of a couple of years ago. I suppose only a hand full or two persons have such a system. End of 2003 I bought his last System 16 (Epsilon Reference) made after that he made one or two more System 12 and 5.
I positioned the system exactly how Mile told me do (distance to the front wall as well as between subwoofers and Satellites) and I made professional room treat done so that without electronic correction the frequency response from 50 Hz to 20kHz at the sweet spot is within +-4 db. If I wish I would be able to put it down to +-3 db. I hear mostly large orchestral or organ music (Bruckner, Mahler, Shostakovich, Berlioz) and I am very frequently in concert halls. The soundstage and ambiance are just very special, I really don't know how Mile could do such loudspeakers with these kind of characteristics. One thing I learnt is that they are sensible to the attached electronics. I had a lot of discussions with him about preamps and other equipments.
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Old 18th June 2012, 08:31 PM   #7752
tomtom is offline tomtom  Slovakia
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Hi all,

Firstly Lynn, i hope that you are comfortable with publishing detail about my system in your thread. When its problem i ask moderator to move it.
System was build-in in new house. Actually it is house around speaker. The listening room is also main living room with kitchen as i dont want to separate from family. This room has no parallel walls. Its about 7x6x3m /W/D/H/ Wall are concrete but roof is light wood construction transparent to everything below ca 150hz - this was to suppress some of room modes. Room is normal furnished and only ceiling is threated with absorptive dry wall + ca 20 cm mineral wool. The room is reasonable live.

Speaker wall is hollow wall with internal volume about 1800L per side. This serve as enclosure for bass /subbass speakers/. Wall is 10cm concrete with steel reinforcement. This wall is also structural part of house as it support roof. Main cabs are MDF.

I was quite busy with house building that i havent much time to take photo.
I attach some photos that i hope are clear enough.

The biggest compromise i made was that room and listening position isnt totally symmetric in room. It was due other purposes of room. I was hoping that side walls are far enough and system directive enough to not to be a problem and i was right.

As how system sound.

Its definitely not MBL omni-polar type of sound. You have very clear window to recording but very little psycho-acoustical help from reflection to create this sense of ambient that omni are capable of.
Sound image is big and you are immersed in recording. Phantom center image is "as discrete center" stable - but of course only in sweet spot, it is stereo after all. You are definitely not capable to identify speakers as source of sound they are transparent.

In direct comparison with superb direct radiator freestanding speakers in same room that was ideally placed about 1,5m from rear wall was clear that rear reflection give to sound some positive richness. But reproduction was also less clear and more even from recording to recording.

So conclusion:

Very very good window to recording. Fantastical for monitoring. Less rich presentation than system with GOOD rear reflection.
Simple recording with ambient are fantastical but you instantly hear when they multimike and or put mikes too close to some orchestra section and that change timbre too much...

System is working in progress. I have not final amps. I was experimenting with STW /i canceled it after 1/2 year/. Its not decided whether i use DSP or analog line level. It was planed analog - i dont need delay - horn has exact depth i need to delay compression driver. But so far i dont see DSP as bottleneck. With final AMPs i will see. I listen only digital no turntable. Mostly classical. Oh, XO is 50 and 500 ca 48db/oct but quite assymetrical.

Thanks for positive comments and feel free to ask
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 4.jpg (129.1 KB, 1490 views)
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (170.1 KB, 1343 views)
File Type: jpg PF.jpg (229.4 KB, 1125 views)
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Old 18th June 2012, 09:07 PM   #7753
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Nice big living room headphones. Good work, stylish also.
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Old 19th June 2012, 01:45 AM   #7754
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This is really DIY ! Thanks for the comments.

Again they underline the dichotomy studio monitoring vs ambient generators and all the endless debate behind these two choices.
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Old 19th June 2012, 02:03 AM   #7755
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Oooh, I wish I had the luxury of doing that.
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Old 19th June 2012, 03:06 AM   #7756
badman is offline badman  United States
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Wow, very impressive work.
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Old 19th June 2012, 04:52 AM   #7757
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Now that's some serious DIY. AE woofers and massive elliptical waveguides!
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Old 19th June 2012, 02:44 PM   #7758
Paul W is offline Paul W  United States
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Terrific design and implementation!!!
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Old 20th June 2012, 04:05 AM   #7759
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Curious how you made the horns, and what profile worked out for you. I must say building an entire room around a set of loudspeakers is extraordinarily ambitious!

Certainly different from 2x4, 2x6, wood framing, and prefab wallboard used in the USA. I think the real reason Americans like bass-heavy and loud speakers are the losses through the walls, which are not as rigid as European and Asian concrete block with steel reinforcement.

We get occasional 100~120 mph winds here in Colorado, but construction technique is the same as the other Western parts of the USA - just more solid, in order to withstand the -15F winters and the high winds. The style of construction used on the West Coast - California, Oregon, and Washington - is simpler and more lightweight, since they don't have the extremes of weather that we have here (40F temperature change in a 24-hour period is not unusual).

Last edited by Lynn Olson; 20th June 2012 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 20th June 2012, 04:06 AM   #7760
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I'm really impressed by how that rough looking concrete block wall became such a thing of beauty. Bravo!
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