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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 17th October 2010, 12:22 AM   #7391
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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And many are lost
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Old 17th October 2010, 12:37 AM   #7392
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You can always ask for directions
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Old 17th October 2010, 01:30 AM   #7393
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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It's not the town of Hana - its the ROAD to Hana.
Slow down, enjoy the drive. Aloha.
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Old 10th November 2010, 03:01 AM   #7394
6L6 is offline 6L6  United States
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Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
It's not the town of Hana - its the ROAD to Hana.
Slow down, enjoy the drive. Aloha.
I agree whole heartedly. The road is fantastic. But the true adventure is the road on the leeward side...

Threadjack - As a builder of original Ariels (the first published cabinet design with the odd angles at the start of the labyrinth, and sticky-dome -9000's !!)
I have to ask if anybody has surrounds on the woofers that are lightly discoloring to a brownish-mustard color, and are cracking on the extreme surface? Also, does anybody have a spare set of woofers they might part with??
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Old 10th November 2010, 09:20 AM   #7395
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Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
It's not the town of Hana - its the ROAD to Hana.
Slow down, enjoy the drive. Aloha.
But after passing Hana there's not much to see anymore
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Old 10th November 2010, 12:20 PM   #7396
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by 6L6 View Post
I agree whole heartedly. The road is fantastic. But the true adventure is the road on the leeward side...
Yes it is - what a wild and wonderful place. Stark, windswept beauty. We called it the "Sebring Highway" because of the all the tourists in their rented Sebring convertibles.

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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
But after passing Hana there's not much to see anymore
Right! We need to tell more people this. Keep them away from the leeward side between Ulupalakua and Hana. After the earthquake took out a couple of bridges, it was soooo peaceful back there. Like a locals only sanctuary.
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Old 10th November 2010, 01:52 PM   #7397
thadman is offline thadman  United States
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A DIY dipole ribbon tweeter is simple to construct from 0.5" x 0.5" NdFeB N50 magnets and some 0.5" square 1018 steel. I build 4" long x 0.7" wide dipole ribbons which can easily be crossed at 1,500Hz, and mount it on top of no-baffle Lambda TD15D or Tang Band W8-1808 mids.
Do you have any measurements? Did you do anything to optimize the path length differences over the drivers height?
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Old 10th November 2010, 07:28 PM   #7398
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Lynn, any updates on your design process, changes in your thinking?

Gary, thanks for your design contribution. Do you have any listening impressions or changes to report? Also, I was wondering if you have tried to incorporate your ribbons for high frequency extention above the Radian CD?

There surely are many like me who do not have the knowledge, or tools to perfect such a speaker. We are relying on your efforts to enhance our DIY high quality speaker options.

We are looking forward to any more progress from the two of you, or others inspired by this thread.

Thanks

NW
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Old 12th November 2010, 03:45 AM   #7399
g3dahl is offline g3dahl  United States
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Hi Norris,

I haven't checked in for quite awhile, but have been made quite a bit of progress on the new speakers, which now have a name: the Benaroyas, named after Benaroya hall, home of the Seattle Symphony. Benaroya is a fantastically musical-sounding hall. Strings sound opulent, and the winds and percussion have an appealing presence. By this time I have heard several of the world's great orchestras there, and I have even played on its stage under Gerard Schwartz (1st timpani in Mahler's Symphony No. 1).

Last time I wrote, I had only gotten far enough to hear a single speaker, but had made enough progress on the crossover that it was time to proceed with building up a stereo pair. I was down to the last couple of hours prior to completion before it was time to leave for RMAF '10. Lynn graciously hosted me for the weekend at his home not far from Denver. The timing for the event was excellent. It gave Lynn and me a chance to again compare our responses to things we were both hearing at the same time, which is an important calibration point for our conversations about things we hear separately.

Upon my return from Denver, I had the pleasure of conducting Beethoven's Fantasy in C minor for Piano, Chorus and Orchestra with the Bremerton Symphony and Chorale. Tania Rivers-Moore was the piano soloist. You can read the review at MusicWeb International if you're curious. If work on the speakers was to be further delayed, it might as well have been for a worthwhile endeavor!

I completed the crossovers (as shown in the previously-posted schematic), did some quick measurements, and started listening to real music -- at last! . First reaction: very promising. I felt that even if further tweaking didn't improve things, this project was already quite worthwhile. But the crossover between the TD15M and the Radian wasn't quite right. The mixed-order (2nd order LP/3rd order HP) wasn't summing correctly. Next I tried a 3rd order LP for the TD15M. Much better, but could still benefit from tweaking.

After more listening to more and more recordings, I noticed that I was finding musical satisfaction in a higher percentage than before of items in my music collection, which was a major goal of the whole project. I hate it when I look back and realize that my listening tastes are being skewed by the flaws in the equipment, since I am most likely to listen to the recordings that sound good in the system. To be honest, I would rather have a system that makes excellent performances sound musical and beautiful than one that makes audiophile recordings sound "spectacular." My definition of musical and beautiful is that I should be able to hear everything that is happening in the music (balances not obscured by glare or other artifacts), and that the tone colors of instruments and voices should be realistic, which to me sounds beautiful in real life. I have never heard a "hi-fi spectacular" system accomplish this.

My next step was to add the Aurum Cantus G3 ribbons. This of course led to experimentation with the upper crossover. So far I have tried various approaches with the HP filter on the ribbons, and run the Radian/Azurahorn both wide open on top and with a small inductor lopping off the highest frequencies. I haven't yet found a configuration that sounds right with all recordings, but it's already better than I have ever before experienced with horn speakers.

One thing I heard at RMAF left a big impression on me (and Lynn as well) -- the new 140-15D dipole ribbon tweeter by Aleksandar Radisavljevic of RAAL. We heard these tweeters extending the top end of a pair of Rethm speakers. The Rethms were operating wide open at the top, with just a HP filter on the RAALs, and the results were fabulous. Lynn ended up with a pair of these tweeters for himself, in addition to the new 9" Lazy Ribbon RAALs. I only have the Aurum Cantus tweeters, but experimented with both frontward and rearward facing. The results have left me really tempted to try the RAAL dipoles, but my wife is thinking I have already spent more than enough on this project. Maybe I can work something out here...we'll see.

I can't say that I have arrived at the final destination yet, but I'm definitely well on the way.

Gary Dahl
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Old 12th November 2010, 04:16 AM   #7400
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Hii Gary

Thanks for your summary - looks like this project takes another interesting turn.
Any pictures of the Rethm speakers you both were impressed from?

Michael
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