Earl,
If 20% of the listeners walked in and claimed "nothing worthwhile listening to in here!" you would have had a better reason to never do another Hi-Fi show, as it is, you just sound too thin-skinned for that dog and pony show ;^) .
Art
You need thick skin to play in the commercial hifi game. Not everybody is going to like your product and some are more vocal than others
And of course the guy might have been right. Maybe there was nothing to hear, there.
No distortion, no funky frequency response, no bad room interactions. You know, they things we are used to in Hi-Fi.
Earl's speakers don't have much of that, so they aren't going to wow people at a show.
No distortion, no funky frequency response, no bad room interactions. You know, they things we are used to in Hi-Fi.
Earl's speakers don't have much of that, so they aren't going to wow people at a show.
Yes in 15 degree increments to check eq and driver directivity match. And they are on a baffle with roundovers.
I don't think there is anything strange going on. They sound very good. I just prefer the azurahorn
I have not seen distortion measurements of a good tweeter compared to a good horn/compression driver combo. We assume that the horn/CD combo has lower distortion, but it is not true. Sure it can go louder and sustain those loud levels longer, but they do not produce less distortion.
At the end of the day, it is all about the pressure exerted on your two ears over time. There is nothing magical about horns. Don't be fooled. Well-designed direct radiators can sound just as good.
Personally, I have been through the journey, starting with direct radiators, then horns, and now back at direct radiators, though of a specific kind
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Most horn systems being discussed here do not solve the more egregious problem of floor and ceiling reflections. Side-wall reflections are not a detriment to the sound; if you prefer to not have them, and it is really just a preference, they can be easily absorbed or diffused. Even Earl uses floor absorbers and ceiling diffusers to tackle the floor and ceiling reflections.
At the end of the day, it is all about the pressure exerted on your two ears over time. There is nothing magical about horns. Don't be fooled. Well-designed direct radiators can sound just as good.
Personally, I have been through the journey, starting with direct radiators, then horns, and now back at direct radiators, though of a specific kind
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Most horn systems being discussed here do not solve the more egregious problem of floor and ceiling reflections. Side-wall reflections are not a detriment to the sound; if you prefer to not have them, and it is really just a preference, they can be easily absorbed or diffused. Even Earl uses floor absorbers and ceiling diffusers to tackle the floor and ceiling reflections.
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Rooms at the RMAF are expensive; even the small ones are around $1500 for a show that runs from mid-day Friday, through Saturday (but effectively closing around 5~6PM), and very light traffic on Sunday morning. Prices at the California show are similar, from what I hear from exhibitors.
There's also expectations on the part of the show-goers and the audiophile press. If you not exhibiting low-efficiency (90 dB/meter or less) speakers with $20,000 to $50,000 transistor amps, you're out of the mainstream, and not many people will visit. The music source in most rooms is a digital music server with a closed selection of music (about half 44.1/16 PCM and the other half high-res PCM and DSD), although pro-quality analog tape decks are making a surprising and unexpected resurgence. You can buy your own studio-quality pre-recorded tapes for the low, low price of $500 a reel.
Most show-goers, and reviewers, expect the room to fall in the Stereophile/Absolute Sound norm. Low-efficiency speakers, powerful Class AB transistor amps with novel biasing schemes, digital music servers with an occasional phonograph or tape deck to liven things up, and cables that cost $10,000 a set or more. Add in power conditioners, little trestles that raise the $10,000 cables off the floor, various wood and metal gizmos that claim to be mechanical isolators, etc. etc.
The CanJam is the part of the show that's growing each year. There are more headphones, and DACs with exotic built-in headphone amps, than you can shake a stick at. The cost of entry (for exhibitors and buyers) is much lower, people can indulge their taste in advanced digital formats for not as much money, and everything is pretty much-plug-n-play ... spin up your Mac or PC, connect the USB cable, and listen to the headphones.
I only saw one room demoing high-efficiency speakers at this year's show. One.
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A priority should be placed on earlier treatment of the wavefront. Eliminating the ceiling completely would take one hell of a waveguide and there are plenty that have fallen into compromise trying. Like riding a motorcycle, the biggest cornering mistake is to fear being set up for the next second or two, rather than feeling the moment as it happens.
Once the ceiling is reached most of the sound needs to be elsewhere. Besides avoiding early reflections, I feel the room should be filled as widely as practical to set up the reverberant field. The geometry just isn't there in a room, so choosing a ceiling absorber has its advantages.
I don't know, Pano. The way you had set it up, there was not much scope for a ceiling reflection. Only really low frequencies would probably hit the ceiling at strong enough amplitudes to be a problem. The high frequencies would probably be striking the ceiling above the listening position. This may not be the case for everyone.
It was so long ago that I probably should not trust my auditory memory. I wish you could come hear my system now. If you ever visit the Pacific Northwest....
It was so long ago that I probably should not trust my auditory memory. I wish you could come hear my system now. If you ever visit the Pacific Northwest....
Yes, for sure.
This was one of the things that has shocked me in my experience with horns- I've seen smoother unsmoothed graphs from waveguide/horn loaded diaphragms than I'd have thought possible, even when utilizing modest driver units (I get some pretty fantastic results with the very inexpensive Apex Jr. high efficiency domes, with ferrofluid removed and careful realignment of coil/gap).
Much of that transition from direct radiators (mostly) to horns was related to your work, and seeing the (sometimes, certainly not always) impressive systems some people managed with "Econowaves".
Smoothness is a funny thing- the heavy coated JBL woofers (including my favorite 12", the JBL 123A/2213 from the L100) are exceptionally smooth, but a very thin coated paper cone can also achieve that level of performance (BD BD15), and the Faital Pro drivers often boast some really impressive smooth performances. I only bring it up because the religion people hold about different radiator types almost always has counter examples.
The complex crossovers needed for good waveguide/horn systems are definitely a challenging factor. To get the best performance from my waveguides with JBL 2426h, I needed two impedance traps in addition to the more conventional high-pass filter w CD EQ.
Speaking of headphones I am using a parafeed tube amp by Doug Savitsky that was inspired by yours and Gary Dahl's Espressivo headphone amp from many years ago. He wrote 3 or 4 articles on his continued takes on the design, and eventually became a headphone amp and DAC manufacturer. The amp I have is one I built from his the DIY kits. Nice sounding amp
Wow, that's sad.
Well, it wasn't all bad. The room with Wavelength electronics and Vaughn/Ionovac speakers was really pretty impressive ... with the Ionovacs as the star of the show. I heard them last year, and this year they were sounding quite remarkable. I heard the Plasmatronics (with its helium plasma tweeter designed by a Los Alamos nuclear physicist) at the 1979 CES, and never forgot that treble. The newly reborn Ionovacs are back in production, and sound maybe even better than the Plasmatronics.
Of course, the Ionovac really a supertweeter ... a crossover at 7 kHz or higher is a good idea. Much much better sounding than the German Acapella ion tweeter, which has something wrong with it ... maybe crossed too low, I dunno. Part of the charm of the Ionovac is its simplicity, and ozone production didn't seem to be a problem.
I'm really thrilled the Ionovac is back in production, and might (fingers crossed) be available on an OEM basis. The designer mentioned that it would be compatible with a system with 97~98 dB efficiency, so yes, I'm interested. Very interested.
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