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Old 14th August 2010, 05:36 AM   #7151
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Please do not confuse us with practical matters!
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Old 14th August 2010, 06:01 AM   #7152
JohnPM is offline JohnPM  United Kingdom
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So reading back through a few of these posts, let me see if I have understood correctly, what with it being so complex. The inhabitants of planet Michael Elias are so ignorant as to the physical nature of the systems they are observing they have no idea of whether their impulse response durations might be measured in seconds, hours or days. Being also blissfully unaware of even the basics of System Identification and not possessing the common sense required to agree on the period of continuously zero output after a transient input that would indicate they had indeed seen the end of the systems's impulse response, they instead indulged in wild speculation about whether an entirely new branch of system theory might be needed to describe these mysterious "systems whose impulse response duration we don't know yet".

Earth calling plant Michael Elias. Your atmosphere is dangerously low in oxygen. You have begun babbling incoherently. Suggest you come back down to earth immediately. Over.
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Old 14th August 2010, 06:52 AM   #7153
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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John - we don't always agree, but here we are pretty much on the same page. I have been wondering this same thing myself, but, alas, Michael and I have long history and I didn't seem the point of "beating a dead horse". But it is good to see that others realize the situation, as I shudder to think what would become of DIY should people really buy into all this misinformation.
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:11 AM   #7154
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:26 AM   #7155
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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What an extraordinary amount of nonsense.
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Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
So reading back through a few of these posts, let me see if I have understood correctly, what with it being so complex.
….
The inhabitants of planet Michael Elias are so ignorant as to the physical nature of the systems they are observing …...
…. they instead indulged in wild speculation about whether an entirely new branch of system theory might be needed to describe these mysterious "systems whose impulse response duration we don't know yet".

Earth calling plant Michael Elias. Your atmosphere is dangerously low in oxygen. You have begun babbling incoherently. Suggest you come back down to earth immediately. Over.
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
...
I shudder to think what would become of DIY should people really buy into all this misinformation.

You are welcome to give any better explanations than „CMP“ behaviour or „frequency response changing with time we look at“ to the plots below (mind you - we could do the exact same discussion with an OB dipole):

Click the image to open in full size.
Beyond the Ariel


Click the image to open in full size.
Beyond the Ariel


and you are also welcome to *PROVE* that what I summarised about CMP behaviour at :

Beyond the Ariel
Beyond the Ariel

is flawed.
John K wasn't able so far - so it might be *your* chance



Michael

Last edited by mige0; 14th August 2010 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:28 AM   #7156
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Michael !

Would't it be a good idéa to make a document (which you seem to like to do) with your CMP theories and put that at your place "Audio and Loudspeaker Design Guidelines". Make a link to it like you already do, and then end the CMP-discussion on this forum?

Yes, you see something than you want the rest of the world to see too, but please drop that prestigious side of yours and realize when to end a discussion.

Personally, I sometimes have a hard time following what you are writing. In this document that I propose, make it a challange and try be as clear as John K (to me he's a reference in clarity). This might give you new CMP-supporters. (Start a new thread on the subject)

You give a lot of energy to this forum, so keep up the good work !

No hard feelings...

Per
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:32 AM   #7157
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Fairyland is always wonderful, isn't it.
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Old 14th August 2010, 08:45 AM   #7158
mige0 is offline mige0  Austria
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Michael !

Would't it be a good idéa to make a document (which you seem to like to do) with your CMP theories ...and then end the CMP-discussion on this forum?

No hard feelings...

Per
Excellent idea ! - where did I have my thoughts ?


Possibly at the question : "LTI or not LTI, thats the question" (with respect to CMP behaviour) - though - thats actually not my problem...


Michael

Last edited by mige0; 14th August 2010 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 14th August 2010, 09:34 AM   #7159
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Is there any textbook explanation of CMP? Perhaps this would help the discussion significantly. I am interested in knowing about the phenomenon of CMP.
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Old 14th August 2010, 10:19 AM   #7160
JohnPM is offline JohnPM  United Kingdom
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You are welcome to give any better explanations than „CMP“ behaviour or „frequency response changing with time we look at“ to the plots below (mind you - we could do the exact same discussion with an OB dipole):
I'll just deal with your fundamental misunderstanding if that's OK, since all the rest seems to flow from that.

The Frequency Response aka Transfer Function of a system is the FT of the entire impulse response. Whilst it may be useful, instructive or simply amusing to look at the spectrum of windowed portions of the impulse response, the fact that the spectrum of those various windowed portions varies falls into the category of scientific knowledge we generally refer to as "blindingly obvious" and has no bearing on the LTI nature of the system whose impulse response is being examined. The impulse response and corresponding transfer function do not change regardless of how often or minutely you choose to observe little slices of it.

I hope that helps you get on with your life and find some constructive endeavours on which to devote your admirable enthusiasm.
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