Beyond the Ariel

[agent.5]

I will try to get up and talk to them someday soon. Maybe they'll get me some "loaners" to measure and listen to as long as we return them

Call them up, and say that we are interested in around 100 pcs, but like to listen to all three cones and do some measurements. Maybe they have the measurement system in San Rafael.

[Variac]

I'll make contact with Brown. I agree Lynn, there is just something "right" looking about those 18 Sound horns. The bigger 1" ones are spec'ed for 1.2 and 1.4 Khz. If we are crossing at over 3khz they should be at least big enough. and combined with those little BMS CD's that Lynn found would be economical enough to also get the AC ribbons to compare . These drivers are threaded though, which would require an adaptor, which they supply for $20 ea. Does this affect response? Also the price is now about the same as the next neo above, which has different charms. Maybe smoother, but not as much extension. Supravox used a very similar shape I believe for their horns, which I'm not sure they even sell anymore.

Speaking of Supravox, did we speak of them? If so , apologies

12"Alnico:
http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_...s/285_2000.htm

12" Field Coil: "with oversize engine of excitation"
http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_...5_2000_EXC.htm

They are sometimes hard to find I hear , and pretty expensive besides, and used to have quality control issues, but at least they are quite wide range...I think most of these issues are resolved. Anybody actually heard them?Probably Lynn has.. For the moment I like our home grown hemp drivers, but it's nice to have a back up option...

EDIT: Supravox recommends this tweeter for their open baffle
Nothing too distinguished looking about it. Might be an interesting thing to try with "full range" drivers as an alternative to Fostex supertweeters. Not for this project though
http://www.bcspeakers.com/download/p...F/more/165.pdf

[Cappy]

Originally posted by Lynn Olson


But - this presentation ruins large-scale choral music, whether church gospel with a rockin' Hammond B3, Beethoven, or Carmina Burana, and it throws off the scale of big-scale electronica as well, where a lot of effects rely on 3D near-far spatial impressions (side two, Dark Side of the Moon).

It is interesting that we can have such different ways of hearing. It was listening to a female gospel choir on large Altecs that first got me interested in horns. They sounded so 3-d real and so tonally right.

I do think of horns as having a more front of the auditorium perspective, though. I like sitting near the front of the venue at a classical music concert. This was convenient when I lived in London because the front area was not the most expensive.

When I was a student in Boston, I liked to go to concerts at Symphony Hall. I'd buy a cheap student ticket, and about 10 minutes after the concert started, I'd creep up to an empty seat near the front. This worked well for a few years until one particular time. I moved forward, and was settling comfortably into my seat. Suddenly there was a wide woman in a fur coat glaring at me with an usher next to her. The usher said: "Mrs. Menuhin would like her seat." She was there to see her husband perform, and of course, I was in her place.

I like the sound of open baffles as well as horns, so please carry on... and continue to baffle us!

[Russell Dawkins]

Supravox suggests a nice looking open baffle on this page:
http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/kits.htm#panneau

[jeff mai]

Originally posted by Lynn Olson
But - this presentation ruins large-scale choral music, whether church gospel with a rockin' Hammond B3, Beethoven, or Carmina Burana, and it throws off the scale of big-scale electronica as well, where a lot of effects rely on 3D near-far spatial impressions (side two, Dark Side of the Moon).

Originally posted by Cappy
It is interesting that we can have such different ways of hearing. It was listening to a female gospel choir on large Altecs that first got me interested in horns. They sounded so 3-d real and so tonally right.

Similarly, I find these big horns do the most mind-blowing spatial tricks with big-scale electronica. There's a "hanging in a huge artificial space" thing that they do with certain recordings that is extremely enjoyable. It can be disorienting enough to force your eyes open at times!

[jeff mai]

Originally posted by Lynn Olson
At this point I wonder if the reasonably small 18Sound 80 x 60 elliptical (OS) horns would offer more spacious sound - just so long as the crossover was reasonably steep and the CD was not allowed anywhere near the cutoff region.

I think this could be a good choice with the right driver. You absolutely must get a "pancake" style driver for these horns to work properly. If on a Constant Directivity horn like a conical or these OS shapes, you use a conventional driver that has a long throat section designed for older horns, this throat section forms a small HF horn that causes severe beaming while boosting the HF on-axis. The throat section of your compression driver ideally should conform to the expansion of the horn.

Others would be better able to direct you to new drivers built like this. I'm more into the old stuff.

[LineSource]

Since ribbons are back in the chat...Images copied from web.
The separate dipole bass unit uses two Lambda 15" hi-Q speakers with an eliptical curve cutout on the dipole baffle pipe

[mige0]

Hi

Too bad the larger Mundorf AMT's have prices that are equivalent to an ounce of gold per driver - with the US dollar dropping week by week, this is kind of expensive for American buyers.

well maybe perfection has it's price but on the other hand i didn't see so much first hand experiance postings with the mundorf exept this one:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...14#post1173214
"http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1173214#post1173214"


so it may be just a (my) AMT hype?



I am currently listening to the ADAM Monitors P11a

http://www.adam-audio.com/studio/
"http://www.adam-audio.com/studio/"

which also have AMT or A.R.T. as they call it. They sound good , very open, and detailled and definitely can play loud but there is also something too bright on it. Maybe its rather from the swiched amp than from the AMT I didn't check that out in detail until now.



If someone wants to start it's own low cost production check out this page:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/neilan...DIY1/index.htm
"http://mywebpages.comcast.net/neilandbarbaradavis/DIYHeil/DIY1/index.htm"



Greetings
Michael

[fred76]

Hi Lynn,

A ToneTubby 8" with a more robust cast frame/basket rather than stamped steel would be interesting to measure...

FAL of Japan has a flat type of widerange neodymium driver (Flat C-90 95db/w/m) but is said to be beamy af HF. Pricey for a pair I think but is said to be very good in OB. Maybe you could xo it in the lower hf ~6kHz? FAL also makes their own high eff Heil tweeters to mate with their widerangers, which might be as pricey as those Mundorfs.

Anyways wrt horns, Jean-Michel LC's horns at the ETF 2004 are pretty much the same as the Azurahorns as they use the same expansion, except for the material used. I think JMLC uses horns that use a form of plaster material.

http://ndaviden.club.fr/pavillon/exe...photos320.html

Jefferey Jackson of experiencemusic.net also has samples of his own made Le C'leach expansion 320Hz horns (t'was at RMAF). Maybe he can lend you his pair? Jefferey used slagleformer attenuators for the compression drivers. The Fostex autoformers (1dB steps) are quite on the pricey side.

For narrow width listening rooms, I think a pair of "very good" horns would be a good thing to avoid early reflections from sidewalls. Even if using small format compression drivers, and if let's say a phenolic diaphragm (vintage driver) that limits the HF ~8k natural roll off, one could still augment it a with a very good supertweeter.

[JC Fardo]

Originally posted by Variac

I still have text from that site and it is very informative. Too bad he doesn't include it now. Maybe I could ask to post it here..

Smile

http://www.lampizator.eu/