I've said it before and will say it again, those TAD drivers are just nice copies of JBL 15" driver, not much difference and I don't know they are worth the extra cost. Most 15" cones have an effective diameter of 13.25" so anything over 1Khz is asking for beaming as was just said for sure. Most 15 just sound better cut much lower than that, but then you are into a mid-range device to cover that mid band.
Beaming from a 15" is not a bad thing - you just have to make sure you match the change in directivity of the woofer to the directivity of the horn or other device you use above it.
In my use of a JBL 2225 as a midbass, I stopped using it around 800Hz because it had more stored energy above there. But it stopped being an omnidirectional source at a much lower frequency than that. This was great as my LeCleac'h midrange horn was not omnidirectional where I wanted to cross it over to the 2225 either.
In my use of a JBL 2225 as a midbass, I stopped using it around 800Hz because it had more stored energy above there. But it stopped being an omnidirectional source at a much lower frequency than that. This was great as my LeCleac'h midrange horn was not omnidirectional where I wanted to cross it over to the 2225 either.
I have been wondering.
What is the measured difference of your horn with and without the added foam?
Indeed, there is no scientific proof that such differences exist, at least no proof I know of, yet those differences exist – I hear them.
(I know what some people are going to say next).
But how do you know?
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
..for that matter how do you know you really exist? Because there is mounting evidence that suggests our "existence" is virtual.
But how do you know?
HOW DO YOU KNOW?
..for that matter how do you know you really exist? Because there is mounting evidence that suggests our "existence" is virtual.
Good point.
Thanks Hottattoo and John for this quick and invaluable feedback. I surely don't want to give up my 416s-not their Alnico sonic charms nor the bundle I just spend on them and the sealed boxes for them. And I've always wanted a pair of ESLs (who hasn't?). Now its up to my ESL builder (and my budget) to see if he can build them to go down as close to 500Hz-or even just 700Hz. Gary Dahl had major success at the latter with his Azurahorn/Radian driver.
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The answer is simple ... all these devices aren't electrically "perfect", largely because at some point they rely on poor quality, metal to metal contacts. A lot of my early experimenting revolved around eliminating every one of these "junk" links in the chain - ahhh, that's much, much better! - was my reaction.
If something is an issue, don't tolerate it - eliminate it!
I once heard a difference with interconnects, so I swapped them back and tried to repeat the difference, but there was none. Some time later I twisted the plugs and confirmed that surface corrosion was a problem. Even if there's more to it I can see how the issue might have got out of hand.
oltos,
My opinion is that going with horns is a much better option than electrostatics. It is much easier and more efficient to get a compression driver go play clean down to 500hz. I love the 15" Altec drivers ( I use 2 pairs of 515b's in front loaded horns ) and have not heard better !!! Just my 2 cents.
My opinion is that going with horns is a much better option than electrostatics. It is much easier and more efficient to get a compression driver go play clean down to 500hz. I love the 15" Altec drivers ( I use 2 pairs of 515b's in front loaded horns ) and have not heard better !!! Just my 2 cents.
As. a matter of fact, I am sure that each difference can be measured and associated with design and listening experience. One auditor of our RCA interconnect did recommend to me the best RCA connector he had used, I looked at it and also did a check on the material. The simple structural lines and the material and plating did reveal what I felt to be quite ideal.
Interconnects are quite different because you not only have impedance matching issues, but also the interacting grounds between two devices. The interaction is also evident when using USB connection to DACs. But it does not necessarily mean the more expensive the better. The right design is much more important, and it can vary with design and layout of the source and receiving devices. Each case can be different.
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No published agreeable scientific proof. But when you think how long before people accepted that the world is round instead of flat, you can imagine this is going to be more difficult, and possibly not important enough to spend he time and money to convince others.[emoji6]
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Have any of you considered the modern JBL woofer waveguide technology to help control dispersion on larger drivers at crossover?
EON615 Products | JBL Professional
EON615 Products | JBL Professional
Yes.
It's also proved already that the Karlson's aperture can widen the dispersion. Same principle.
And it's simple to try on any speaker, just a piece of board cut to the shape:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-aperture-z-baffle-dipole-19.html#post4355550
It's also proved already that the Karlson's aperture can widen the dispersion. Same principle.
And it's simple to try on any speaker, just a piece of board cut to the shape:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-aperture-z-baffle-dipole-19.html#post4355550
REGARDING AZURAHORN 425
Lyn,
Sorry to bother you, but I have been emailing Martin Seddon at Azurahorn dot com for two months and am getting no response. Is he still producing the 425 horns, or any horns? Is there an alternative way to contact him different from the email address above? Perhaps a phone #?
Again, sorry to bother you with this.
Best regards,
Bill Lyon
Lyn,
Sorry to bother you, but I have been emailing Martin Seddon at Azurahorn dot com for two months and am getting no response. Is he still producing the 425 horns, or any horns? Is there an alternative way to contact him different from the email address above? Perhaps a phone #?
Again, sorry to bother you with this.
Best regards,
Bill Lyon
I've never contacted Martin by phone or Skype, it's all been by e-mail. I contact him through his website, which has an email address on it somewhere. He's still making Azurahorns the last I knew, it's just that models bigger than the AH425 and AH550 are not economical to ship out of Australia. Perth is a long way from the rest of the world.
The fallback are the Polish-made Autotech fiberglass horns, and there are several models a bit bigger than the AH425. Wood-turned LeCleac'h horns are frighteningly expensive, the last I checked, and you have to be careful the throat region is a precision match to the exit of the compression driver.
Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.
Kind of a surprise, because I associate OB's with a rack full of high-watt Class AB or Class D transistor amplifiers, multi-amping, and lots of DSP or analog op-amp EQ. Didn't expect that a dinky little tube amp with an early 1940's circuit (pre-Williamson with a floating paraphase inverter and straight pentode operation) ... and no system EQ at all ... would sound as dynamic as it did. Learn something every day.
The fallback are the Polish-made Autotech fiberglass horns, and there are several models a bit bigger than the AH425. Wood-turned LeCleac'h horns are frighteningly expensive, the last I checked, and you have to be careful the throat region is a precision match to the exit of the compression driver.
Just auditioned the Spatial M1 Hologram at a friend's house; at US$4000/pair, they are very good indeed. Not sure which 15" pro coaxial driver Spatial is using, possibly a Radian. Also can't quite figure out how a pair of 15" drivers in a simple OB makes bass down to 50 Hz while retaining efficiency in the 95 dB/meter/watt range ... and I heard the 50 Hz for myself, it's not just PR brag. Probably the most dynamic-sounding OB I've heard to date ... 20 watts/channel of PP pentode power from the JWN "Colorado Special" amplifier rocks the house.
Kind of a surprise, because I associate OB's with a rack full of high-watt Class AB or Class D transistor amplifiers, multi-amping, and lots of DSP or analog op-amp EQ. Didn't expect that a dinky little tube amp with an early 1940's circuit (pre-Williamson with a floating paraphase inverter and straight pentode operation) ... and no system EQ at all ... would sound as dynamic as it did. Learn something every day.
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I've had several problems connections in laboratory measurements. Using cheap connectors, oxidation happens quickly, creating problems where apparently do not exist. I've had this problem too in my listening room. I say more: with the proliferation of dissimilar materials for contacts (copper, rhodium, gold, etc...), the problem reappears, because the surface corrosion is known to occur more often when the metals in contact are different. Now I use only matched metals (=brand) in interconnects.
I also try to integrate things to eliminate cables. I don't tolerate pres, for example. I make my amps always with integrated volume control and sufficient gain.
A warning: sometimes the mind can trick, believing it had differences where none exist. I've have some moments so. BUT the mind can also be trained to not hear anything different because if individual has the classic belief such " differences exist only in cases already tried/measured" (this IS one belief!), one will only hear differences in that cases! Experience and honesty with yourself will help minimize the moments of "false positives" or "false negatives" (and be prepared to hear zero differences in some cases).
Having said that, I invest most of the money on loudspeakers projects, given that is the weakest link in the chain (and here is an thread about loudspeakers). The rest of the sound difference of the equipment, while important for me, has a lower weight and it is cheaper to solve if you are a DIY.