Beyond the Ariel

[moray james]

Variac... the heil uses a horizontally pleated membrain that looks just like an accordian. When the driver is fed a signal the pleats squeeze together on the front side and open on the back side then the cycle reverses. So like a bellows while it pushes on the front side it is drawing in air on the back. If it were a simple case of horizontal push and pull then it would behave as a bipole. Regards Moray James.

[dmason]

Moray,

That price quote was for the 6.5 cone wideband ceiling driver unit in a can. The 6.5 coaxial ,driver is ~$400, which could easily be bettered IMHO.... I agree, whizzer "fullrangers" are out.

[planet10]

Originally posted by SunRa
planet10,
what are you using for those 3d drawings of yours? It's Linux based cause I don't know it...

Originally posted by Aengus
Not to answer for Dave, but in case he doesn't see this for a while, I believe he is using Google Sketchup (which does run under Windows).

Originally posted by chrisb
correct, although I think he imports original 2D sketches from Vectorworks

Free Google SketchUp running under OS X Tiger, with Vectorworks for accurate shape creation (despite the bumpf, it is clumsy to draw really accuratly in SketchUp. Screen snapshops are then taken, opened in PhotoShop and prepared for the web.

dave

[moray james]

versions are less expensive than ceiling but yes I agree that is getting up there. Will check into the prices for contractors. Given that these work well they may not be out of contention. Remember guys are paying almost $300.00 US funds for sota tweeters today. So what else would make a short list? What about a 3 -4 inch wide line source ESL with 1 - 1.5 mm gap and lots of tension for good efficiency to get you down to a couple of hundred hertz? Regards Moray James.

[planet10]

If the Tannoys are to be considered, the 12" (in a can -- CMS12TDC) is probably in keeping with Lynn's goals, has a paper cone instead of a plastic (i had a set of the 8" in the Dimension cabinets, while good, i prefer a set of Fonkens)... Still i'd love to have a set of the 4s to play with. The pricing should be -- based on 2000 pricing that i have ($650 USD/pr) -- in the same general ballpark of many of the drivers being considered.

Note that to get these, you have to be an "installer/dealer" so a group buy would need to revolve around one of these (even if it is one of use, just signing up to do this one buy)

dave

[Lynn Olson]

Originally posted by dmason
I think the price premium for the combination of HempTone and Alnico is easily justified with the Tone Tubby. I am more interested in the 10, which demonstrated the ability to output almost unbelievable HF range, when wrenched with active contouring. I like the 10, ALOT. There will be forthcoming an 8 inch wideband, 94db HempTone with hemp dustcap, designed to 8.5KHz, if that helps at all. Release is "soon." Seen it, not heard it.

You've seen curves? From TT or anyone else? Very curious what you saw about the HF side of things for the 10" Alnico TT - how does it compare to what I measured for the 12" driver - what kind of EQ, notch filter, overall EQ, etc.

I'm of the school that is reluctant to "boost" drivers in any part of their range, but am quite willing to apply strategically shaped rolloff curves and notch filters when necessary.

As for the Tannoys, I've heard the poly-cone versions, and no way am I interested in those. But the 10 or 12-inch paper-cones at the contractor price - now, that would be interesting!

[Lynn Olson]

Originally posted by moray james
Chrisb yes the IW4 DC goes reasonably deep plays loud is clean smooth and has excellent dispersion qualities. Cheap too.
Dmason... I don't think that $200.00 is an awfull lot for a Tannoy Dual Concentric 6.5 inch driver. That's a two way unit that has a big VC on the cone and a real comp driver with a horn and it works. These have real bandwidth (including power handling) and lots of top end which play way louder than any similar priced full range driver that will need modification as well as a tweeter to get the job done. Seems reasonable to me.
Which full range drivers below $200.00 would you consider as options? The FE206E comes to mind but I think needs some work and the FE207E needs a tweeter. Perhaps an Enabled 167 or 166 might get the job done but again they will need some work. If a short list of possible drivers can be put together then some sort of game plan can evolve. Regards Moray James.

From my own experience, I would rule out Fostex drivers. The factory FR curves are unreliable, and the violent response that's really there is almost uncorrectable by crossover network - many peaks and dips, and response curves like a 6 x 9 car speaker. Plus, they sound pretty awful in every speaker I've heard - raucous, harsh, and seem to "flat-top" dynamically around 95 dB.

I must confess that to some extent I am over-correcting from the Ariel, with its pint-size 5.5" Vifa drivers. Yes, they're ever so smooth and silky, with wonderful vocal qualities, but they run out of gas around 100 ~ 105 dB (yes, I've played them that loud). I want much more dynamic range this time around, at least 10 dB more. Seriously, I do.

Now the problem is finding drivers that have even moderately smooth responses, since we've officially left audiophile territory. Then again, audiophile drivers have left me, since the latest crop of audiophile jewels with advanced cones are now as rough, or rougher, than prosound, but without prosound dynamics!

[SunRa]

I really wonder if TAD is as good as they are praised. If I'd had to choose just from PA audio (which I am considering more and more) then I guess TAD, Precision Devices, 18Sound and PHL would be the first choices, specialy considering midrange aplications.

Unfortunately my beliefs are based only from review's and rumors; bringing these to discussion and doing a proper selection would be a great benefit.

[chrismercurio]

I was looking for a 12" guitar speaker with smooth response yesterday and stubled upon this speaker.

I'm wondering if it is a candidate for your project? It has smoother (published) response than a great deal of hifi and pro product. It also doesn't have any of the ragged topend or peaky breakup.

Just a thought,
C

[dmason]

Lynn

Nothing at all scientific, a pair of TT 10 popped out of a Fender Twin and mounted on a baffle, using an EMU 1616 PEQ patch, VERY impressed with the clean, smooth, and ultra-musical reach of the TT 10 Alnico. Clearly higher reach than that indicated on your graph. ...TT send their drivers out for independent analysis, and I explained to them at NAMM that FR plots would be useful for the non-rockers interested in their wares. I am a strong believer in these two drivers.