Beyond the Ariel - Page 421

Lynn Olson · 13th July 2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John_E_Janowitz

Simply stiffening up the spider would put Fs in the 38hz range, Qms: 9, Qes: .5, Qts: .48.

John

I'd vote for a moderately stiffer spider, so the Qts for the 18" driver falls somewhere between 0.5 and 0.65. I expect to be using monopole subs below 50 Hz anyway, so response below 50 Hz is not really that useful. Aside from using subs, I am quite happy with the overall balance of speakers that have a LF rolloff around 50 Hz - I listened to the Ariels for many years without a subwoofer, and their in-room Fs in the 50~55 Hz range.

(The rest of the specs look really great! What are the proposed dimensions for the exterior diameter, baffle cutout, and bolt-circle diameter?)

The general idea for this system is for the sub and the supertweeter to extend the response, but not be essential for musical enjoyment. The real system is the 18" woofer, the 12" midbass, and the large-format compression driver on a low-diffraction horn/waveguide.

Salas · 13th July 2008, 10:18 PM

Are you considering to use multiple and differently tuned self powered cheap subs and utilize overlap with the mains so to have an even modal region a la Geddes practice? Its a very good option to consider, IMHO.

Lynn Olson · 13th July 2008, 10:26 PM

More than one, that's for sure. But that's for much later. The frequency range that really matters is 50 Hz to 12 kHz, with a little extra sparkle on the top a nice bonus.

Salas · 13th July 2008, 10:34 PM

Even more tightly, 80Hz to 10kHz. I agree. But in a large room with a high SPL system, an even and deep modal region lends a royal sense of majesty. Imagine the Great Gate Of Kiev reproduced like that.

Lynn Olson · 13th July 2008, 10:49 PM

Well, that's certainly true. Very few systems can reproduce that astounding sense of bass rolling around that you hear in a big, beautiful symphony hall - thrills aplenty in "Pictures at an Exhibition", "Carmina Burana", or the "Rite of Spring".

Not the same as dinosaur thumps or a phaser blasts from a 7.1 Dolby Digital soundtrack in a multiplex theater. That's noise, not bass.

Salas · 13th July 2008, 10:52 PM

And in Mahler's 2nd and in Holst's Planets, and in Stravinsky's Firebird, and, and...

Salas · 13th July 2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lynn Olson
Well, that's certainly true. Very few systems can reproduce that astounding sense of bass rolling around that you hear in a big, beautiful symphony hall

In the ''System'' concept I would certainly give paramount importance to the room factor and the way that it is energized. Evenly is the key.

The rolling, enveloping, breathing bass of the huge concert hall is due to the fact that in such dimensions, the modal region stops low, at 10-20Hz. Higher than that, the modes become dense, much like they become in a domestic room after 150-200Hz.

Lynn Olson · 14th July 2008, 12:26 AM

The 18Sound 12NDA520 Neodymium-magnet 12" driver is in the foreground, and the GPA 414 Alnico-magnet 12" driver is in the background.

Lynn Olson · 14th July 2008, 12:28 AM

The 12NDA520 is in the foreground, and the 414 is in the background.

Salas · 14th July 2008, 12:40 AM

Wow! Very nice woofer constructions. You are near to some serious hands on evaluations.

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13th July 2008, 10:18 PM	#4202
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	Are you considering to use multiple and differently tuned self powered cheap subs and utilize overlap with the mains so to have an even modal region a la Geddes practice? Its a very good option to consider, IMHO.

13th July 2008, 10:26 PM	#4203
Lynn Olson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Northern Colorado	More than one, that's for sure. But that's for much later. The frequency range that really matters is 50 Hz to 12 kHz, with a little extra sparkle on the top a nice bonus.

13th July 2008, 10:34 PM	#4204
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	Even more tightly, 80Hz to 10kHz. I agree. But in a large room with a high SPL system, an even and deep modal region lends a royal sense of majesty. Imagine the Great Gate Of Kiev reproduced like that.

13th July 2008, 10:49 PM	#4205
Lynn Olson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Northern Colorado	Well, that's certainly true. Very few systems can reproduce that astounding sense of bass rolling around that you hear in a big, beautiful symphony hall - thrills aplenty in "Pictures at an Exhibition", "Carmina Burana", or the "Rite of Spring". Not the same as dinosaur thumps or a phaser blasts from a 7.1 Dolby Digital soundtrack in a multiplex theater. That's noise, not bass.

13th July 2008, 10:52 PM	#4206
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	And in Mahler's 2nd and in Holst's Planets, and in Stravinsky's Firebird, and, and...

14th July 2008, 12:40 AM	#4210
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	Wow! Very nice woofer constructions. You are near to some serious hands on evaluations.