Beyond the Ariel

[pdan]

Mr Olson's design does seem to have a high CAF ( Chap Approval Factor ), however, since the compression horn will rule the sonic roost, I'd be very interested in Mrs Olson's opinion and judgement on the sound quality. Perhaps: "Well darling, it sounds fine ... but don't you think ... ?"


On the Sowter website I came across a reference to a Steve Bench capacitorless RIAA pre-amp. Maybe it's because I'm developing an inductor/transformer fetish, ( similar to those grim beards who enjoy pavlovian responses at the mere thought of the word - "ALNICO"), that I find the design appealing. Dubious suspicions aside, does anyone have any experience/info' of/on the design ?


Cilla

[ScottG]

Originally posted by FlorianO
Scott,
Maybe is my ignorance, but is this an "academic" way of saying that the stiff surrounds are good for high SPLs (as being the pro speakers they are and their power ratings suggest) but less so for microdynamics and "delicacy" (in 'phile speak) ?

..an oversimplification, but yes.

Surrounds are there to do 3 things:

1. *try* to keep rear pressure from leaking to the front during excursion (and vice versus).

2. *try* to keep the driver centered during excursion.

3. *try* to dampen the diaphragm's "outer" edge.

Its the 3rd characteristic thats of some what a dubious character, and unfortunately the surround does still factor-in to the mechanical compliance of the driver (..as opposed to the spider alone).

Its the spider however where most of the driver's qm is generated.

With very small excursions (say up to a 1/4 of a mm), and a driver that is "broken in" you'll often find such excursions are primarily being limited by the surround (..depending on the type of surround). However at higher excursions (greater than 1/2 a mm), specifically where a midbass is likely to be operated, the driver's spider and the driver's loading becomes increasingly important.

What I like to see is a fairly compliant driver, not much resistance to small movements by the surround nor a lot of dampening, modes being "spot" dampened in the driver's diaphragm (where it counts), and a decent amount of electrical dampening depending on mms and the design's loading. In general I prefer a low mass diaphragm (for a given sd) - something that won't store a lot of energy early on, but typically is less well damped and as a result often has a fair bit of energy stored below the operating average. Note that such a diaphragm can often be improved with "spot" dampening (..usually by cutting into the cone and applying a viscous material like soft silicone).

[Sheldon]

Originally posted by pdan
On the Sowter website I came across a reference to a Steve Bench capacitorless RIAA pre-amp. Maybe it's because I'm developing an inductor/transformer fetish, ( similar to those grim beards who enjoy pavlovian responses at the mere thought of the word - "ALNICO"), that I find the design appealing. Dubious suspicions aside, does anyone have any experience/info' of/on the design ?

There is some discussion on the Intactaudio forum.

Sheldon

[Anglo]

Originally posted by nickmckinney
I really love the EV Alnico, actually most all the EV 2.5" coil speakers sound really really good. I "borrowed" quite a bit from their cone design I will admit and since those coils are so small they are very wide bandwidth.

...if I may ask, have ever heard an EV SP15a in an OBand if so what are your thoughts on it. The +'s and -'s that is.

Thanks in advance.

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by Anglo


...if I may ask, have ever heard an EV SP15a in an OBand if so what are your thoughts on it. The +'s and -'s that is.

Thanks in advance.

Hello Anglo,

No I have never had an SP15a - I have had good luck with some vintage 15's though on an open baffle. The Magnavox field coil 15 (an organ speaker I had my reconer modify for me with a new spider, cone and surround) and the Altec 415A Biflex.

[swak]

Nick,

which EV alnico models with 2.5" voice coil are you referring to?

[dnewcomer]

Originally posted by pedroskova
pricing?

re: Renkus Heinz horns

When checking on the RH horns pricing, it appeared that the web site may be for dealers only. I managed to locate a local dealer and got a quote of 123.00 ea + shipping for the CCH1200-9 1'' 90x60 horns

question for Magnetar:

do you really think they sound better than the XT120. $100 ea better?

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by dnewcomer


re: Renkus Heinz horns

When checking on the RH horns pricing, it appeared that the web site may be for dealers only. I managed to locate a local dealer and got a quote of 123.00 ea + shipping for the CCH1200-9 1'' 90x60 horns

question for Magnetar:

do you really think they sound better than the XT120. $100 ea better?

It depends. They do load lower and are usable to around 1200 HZ vs 2000 with the XT120.

They also have better vertical radiation. My panels center point is 36 inches and I find they are more livable for me, sitting down, standing up or laying on the couch..

As far as coloration the XT120 is pretty darn low IMO, these are better. They do not sound like a dome, ribbon, AMT cone or a horn. The little RTR's electrostatic tweeters are better (I'm using a GREAT driver the Emilar EA175) on the top treble where the shimmer and silk is. The Emilar is only good out to 15K so it might be the very top I'm missing.

So for the money the XT120 is the best deal if you don't need to go as low or don't care too much about the vertical pattern. Both are excellent horizontally. IMO compared to other horns or'waveguides' the RH is still an outstanding bargain for 200 a pair more - it does SOUND better.

I am thinking Renkus Heinz does have a better horn in it's stable. I'm not sure which one - maybe the 90 by 40 large format model that loads to 500 cycles..

[nickmckinney]

Originally posted by swak
Nick,

which EV alnico models with 2.5" voice coil are you referring to?

Its been 10 years since I worked with any of them so the details are in the fog so to speak. You have to realize that I was working in a large recone shop back then and 20-40 different speakers a day would pass my lap for a music and VC buzz test. From what I quickly heard most small coil EV sounded good no matter the motor, the 4" VC EV stuff is not my cup of tea but I can understand the need for the larger coil. Small coil EV, Altec, Tannoy - after hearing a bunch of everything those stood out quickly. Thats when I started liking larger drivers too, the 15" versions of these 3 always sounded better than their 12" cousins.

[Magnetar]

Originally posted by nickmckinney



Its been 10 years since I worked with any of them so the details are in the fog so to speak. You have to realize that I was working in a large recone shop back then and 20-40 different speakers a day would pass my lap for a music and VC buzz test. From what I quickly heard most small coil EV sounded good no matter the motor, the 4" VC EV stuff is not my cup of tea but I can understand the need for the larger coil. Small coil EV, Altec, Tannoy - after hearing a bunch of everything those stood out quickly. Thats when I started liking larger drivers too, the 15" versions of these 3 always sounded better than their 12" cousins.

Do remember the SRO 12 with the huge alnico magnet? The guitarists swear by them -

I had a pair reconed with a doped flexair edge and a vented dustcap with a wad of cotton stuck behind the cap.

If you can build a driver that sounds like these you should be avle to sell a buncjh of them to hifi people - use the paper edge for guitarists and you'll sell lots more - maybe have a hemp cone option