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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 16th June 2008, 11:29 PM   #3991
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magnetar
The 2242 is a real driver Scott - I have been using them for years the 2227..

In the 15" category look to the old oem Ciare 15.64NdW1.. good qe and qm - AND with only a 2.5 inch coil.

Under normal operation this would put the 2227 to shame (sound-wise).. and you would feel down right abused at the price difference.

At one time Ciare had some drivers with qm's nearing 20 and fairly low qe's, unfortunately they have never had decent linear excursions (..to be expected though considering the more compliant suspension).

I'll give you the 2242 though, mostly because there isn't a lot better in 18" drivers.
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Old 16th June 2008, 11:33 PM   #3992
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Hi all, I've been busy the last few days. Here's an updated drawing that I'll be showing to the local Northern Colorado woodworkers - I'm still awaiting delivery of several key components, the AH-425, the 288-16H's, and the 414-16A's. The 12NDA520's, the 6ND410's, and the RAAL 140-15D are already on hand.

Thus far, I've spent about US$3000, and I expect to spend another US$1000~2000 before measurements and audition can start. So I'm definitely committed, although I have no idea if it will be completed in time for the RMAF show. Frankly, just moving them to and from the show is such a hassle that I don't feel much incentive to demo them at the show. The last time I took the Karna's to the show, it definitely wasn't worth the effort - the amps nearly got demolished by careless show-goers not looking where they were stepping, and the actual demo lasted maybe half-an-hour. It took longer to move them to and from the show than the time they were up and running.
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Old 16th June 2008, 11:55 PM   #3993
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn Olson
Hi all, I've been busy the last few days. Here's an updated drawing that I'll be showing to the local Northern Colorado woodworkers - I'm still awaiting delivery of several key components, the AH-425, the 288-16H's, and the 414-16A's. The 12NDA520's, the 6ND410's, and the RAAL 140-15D are already on hand.

Thus far, I've spent about US$3000, and I expect to spend another US$1000~2000 before measurements and audition can start. So I'm definitely committed, although I have no idea if it will be completed in time for the RMAF show. Frankly, just moving them to and from the show is such a hassle that I don't feel much incentive to demo them at the show. The last time I took the Karna's to the show, it definitely wasn't worth the effort - the amps nearly got demolished by careless show-goers not looking where they were stepping, and the actual demo lasted maybe half-an-hour. It took longer to move them to and from the show than the time they were up and running.

Lynn, what is your subjective impression of the 12DA520 vs the Tone Tubby (..in the wide band open baffle config.)? Also, how much "time" has each driver "seen", and in general do you feel they are "broken in" sufficiently?

Bummer about the show-goers.
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:11 AM   #3994
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn Olson
Hi all, I've been busy the last few days. Here's an updated drawing that I'll be showing to the local Northern Colorado woodworkers - I'm still awaiting delivery of several key components, the AH-425, the 288-16H's, and the 414-16A's. The 12NDA520's, the 6ND410's, and the RAAL 140-15D are already on hand.

Thus far, I've spent about US$3000, and I expect to spend another US$1000~2000 before measurements and audition can start. So I'm definitely committed, although I have no idea if it will be completed in time for the RMAF show. Frankly, just moving them to and from the show is such a hassle that I don't feel much incentive to demo them at the show. The last time I took the Karna's to the show, it definitely wasn't worth the effort - the amps nearly got demolished by careless show-goers not looking where they were stepping, and the actual demo lasted maybe half-an-hour. It took longer to move them to and from the show than the time they were up and running.

Click the image to open in full size.

Hey Lynn, I hauled this to a show and although people said it sounded great I thought it sounded like crap. The walls were fake and rattled plus the windows reflected sound all around - taking a beast to a 'show' is something I'll never do This was a heavy system. The subs in the back used four 15's each.

Dipoles would be easy .......
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:21 AM   #3995
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Default Re: Measurement echnique for in Depth Investigation of Thermal Transient Response of

Quote:
Originally posted by mige0
"Measurement Technique for in Depth Investigation of Thermal Transient Response of Speakers" seems to be an explosive topic.

To allow for cooling down I will take a short vacation seems I have injected more energy than some people in this thread can handle.

nickmckinney, no measurement competition between you and me no champagne. - but you always can send me one in case you loose the third party testing.

The only thing explosive has been the fact that you know very little about driver design but yet want to argue with me about things that are obvious to anyone that has glued a speaker together.

If you have noticed I only comment on things that I know about, there is plenty here that flies completely over my head. If you would do the same we wouldn't be this far off track.

I won't lose the third party power testing, sorry.


Quote:
Originally posted by chrismercurio
Slighty related.....

John K of Zaph Audio will be testing some of the TD drivers.

Another respected 3rd party test in the works.


Quote:
Originally posted by Magnetar
Low inductance and 2" coils - sounds like a tweeter to me

Yes you can hear cymbal shots on them though not as good as a tweeter. It is a byproduct of the design that I will admit I was not working to achieve. However I cannot complain as it makes crossover implementation much easier.

People always comment on the 2" voice coil when in fact it probably has as much wire as a 4" JBL SVG since the winding length is so much longer. Then consider the only heat sink for the JBL voice coil is the steel pole and plate...........
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:30 AM   #3996
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Default Re: Re: Measurement echnique for in Depth Investigation of Thermal Transient Response

Quote:
Originally posted by nickmckinney





Yes you can hear cymbal shots on them though not as good as a tweeter. It is a byproduct of the design that I will admit I was not working to achieve. However I cannot complain as it makes crossover implementation much easier.

People always comment on the 2" voice coil when in fact it probably has as much wire as a 4" JBL SVG since the winding length is so much longer. Then consider the only heat sink for the JBL voice coil is the steel pole and plate...........
Well, I can hear cymbal shots through just about any woofer - I have some 12's here (old alnico EV SRO/12') with 2.5" voice coil and it is the best midrange driver I have ever heard (this week) plus it's really efficient. I am comparing them to some super quad 57's as I type this
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Old 17th June 2008, 01:52 AM   #3997
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Quote:
Hi all, I've been busy the last few days. Here's an updated drawing that I'll be showing to the local Northern Colorado woodworkers - I'm still awaiting delivery of several key components, the AH-425, the 288-16H's, and the 414-16A's. The 12NDA520's, the 6ND410's, and the RAAL 140-15D are already on hand.
Hello Lynn,

I understand you will be auditioning a quartet of 6nd410 drivers. What low-pass frequency do you think would be necessarily to avoid combing effects? 700-900Hz?
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Old 17th June 2008, 01:54 AM   #3998
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I really love the EV Alnico, actually most all the EV 2.5" coil speakers sound really really good. I "borrowed" quite a bit from their cone design I will admit and since those coils are so small they are very wide bandwidth.
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Old 17th June 2008, 12:47 PM   #3999
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Measurement echnique for in Depth Investigation of Thermal Transi

Scott,


Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG
I however *like* the idea behind 18 Sound's "active impedance".. [...] (..note though that their drivers still have an overly stiff surround - good for pressure operation but suboptimal for velocity operation).
Maybe is my ignorance, but is this an "academic" way of saying that the stiff surrounds are good for high SPLs (as being the pro speakers they are and their power ratings suggest) but less so for microdynamics and "delicacy" (in 'phile speak) ?
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Old 17th June 2008, 03:52 PM   #4000
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Default speaker alignment

hello Linn

how about a driver alignment as on my drawing ? similar to Jack Bouskas speakers ?

the radiation pattern of the midrange horn is quite wide. The Raal is however more narrowed. So there is a missmatch between these, unless you will use foam.
The OB mid and bass drivers have also a completely different polar pattern and radiation behaviour, than the midrange horn, and Raal tweeters, radiating also backwards. So actually , nothing will match. Specially at the crossover points.
i am wrong about that ?

A direct radiating woofer, close to the floor is very clear audible, where the source is located. Similar to your design. With a row, from the ceiling to the floor, however, the radiation would be much more even , what in my opinion would be preferable.

Angelo

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