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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Beyond the Ariel
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Old 16th April 2007, 06:11 PM   #301
johninCR is offline johninCR  United States
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Thanks for that link. Only 50 pieces means I only have to commit to 13pairs, maybe less as a coax. My problem is geography. While I may be able to develop some proficiency at measurements and XO design, experience is better, and me wasting many $100s on shipping in the prototype process defeats the purpose. Anyone who is interested in being the stateside coordinator, please contact me directly. I have the business requirements and financial guarantee to Eminence covered.
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Old 16th April 2007, 06:29 PM   #302
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Originally posted by johninCR

While Eminence seems to run a tight ship schedule-wise, I've been waiting for the 10" coax that was expected to be out last July, so your comparison to HA is without full info. When Darrel comes out with something new, I'll be more than happy to give it a twirl. A group buy that I'd like to be part of would be trying to come up with something different and save money too, especially since it could eliminate an extra layer of profit.

Fair enough, but I thought that the delays with the 10" were more due to Darrel's satisfaction with getting it to sound quite right, as opposed to any production issues by Eminence.

The bases-loaded home-run that was achieved with the original SI15, ( with relatively minor revisions to the passive XO), turned out to be a tough act to follow.

As for Darrel's profit margin, at his current retail pricing I doubt he's paying for the lease on a Lamborghini
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Old 16th April 2007, 06:43 PM   #303
Variac is offline Variac  Costa Rica
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I travel, to Costa Rica at least once a year, as you know. Next trip: early July, so am happy to be a mule. But I understand that you want someone with a proven ear to actually work with Eminence..someone like Lynn!!!

Working with SI is still a good idea IMHO-maybe they would give us a deal for the first run. Let their travails getting a great 10" be a lesson, you can't just order this stuff by the book and expect something great.(I know you know this..)

Here is another guy with a successful audiophile custom driver:

Look for the BD-15

LYNN: Shall I split all references to getting a custom driver off into its own thread?
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Old 16th April 2007, 06:49 PM   #304
chrismercurio is offline chrismercurio  United States
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Default I'm in.

for the 8" or the 12", but not the 15". My wife would prefer they simply be in the wall. The 15" is really tempting but really a deal breaker on the home front.

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Old 16th April 2007, 06:57 PM   #305
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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I hope that this thread will fruit to an international class reference speaker in 2007 that DIY audio owes to itself to boast.
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Old 16th April 2007, 07:16 PM   #306
agent.5 is offline agent.5  United States
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LYNN: Shall I split all references to getting a custom driver off into its own thread? [/B]

Actually, I think we need more than just a group buy of custom drivers, we may also need a group buy of acrylic donuts (not easily DIY) to mount these drivers on.
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Old 16th April 2007, 07:23 PM   #307
Lynn Olson is offline Lynn Olson  United States
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Info about my personal situation: it'll probably be months before I can go down into the basement and use MLSSA to measure things, or re-assemble my Karna amplifiers so I can listen to quality hi-fi. My Ariels are connected to my Denon HT receiver, which is only barely hi-fi, and hardly a serious evaluation tool. Things are going to stay that way until I'm well along in the rehab program and can actually walk around, go up and down stairs, and carry things while walking.

I started the thread precisely because I can't do my usual design thing quietly by myself, so I'm throwing it open to all of you - and I very much appreciate your co-operation and great suggestions. But for now, you guys are on your own with the actual baffle-building, measurements, and auditions - it'll probably be summertime 'till I can do that kind of thing.

As for preferred driver sizes, I give a big vote to partitioning things into favorite driver sizes, probably 8" and 12" drivers. A speaker with a 8" fullranger is a very different animal than a speaker with a 12" fullranger - but fortunately, the underlying technology and overall approach is very much the same, consisting of a diffraction-controlled open baffle, a fullrange/widerange driver on top, and one or more bass-augmentation units on the bottom. There are wings on the bottom part of the OB, and no wings on the top. The LF crossover can be active or passive, as desired, with LF EQ to taste.

As for ribbons mounted coaxially, well it would work, I guess, but I'm concerned about the nearly massless ribbon fluttering under pressure from the bass waves from the driver. Pressures are highest in the middle of the cone, and that's right where the ribbon would go - I think IM distortion might be a problem for the tweeter when serious bass comes along.

I wouldn't go chasing the will-o-the-wisp of Siegfried's latest confections. Like me, he changes his mind all the time, and like my stuff, his speakers (which I've heard) have good and bad points sonically. I've heard dipole and cardioid speakers and well, yes, they have good points, but I really think the absence of the cabinet is the big thing, not the polar pattern, which is very much a room-sensitivity thing. Some rooms may favor cardioids, and some may favor dipoles. MBLs and Bastanis speakers both do wonderful things, but they are completely different animals as far as radiation patterns go.

As for another spinning off another thread, maybe one entitled "Advanced Coax Design"?
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Old 16th April 2007, 07:56 PM   #308
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Originally posted by mikey_audiogeek
Not if you take the back off the compression drivers to expose the diaphragm for dipole operation, like I (and others) have...

Does anyone have experience or data on running a compression driver with the back chamber and dampening material removed? It would be an interesting experiment to run both a front and rear horn, or lower loading waveguides, from one compression driver.

The Orion forum noted that a second Seas tweeter is necessary because testing showed that removing the rear compression chamber dramatically changed the response curve and also raised the useful crossover frequency.

I don't think you would want to use a ribbon as the coaxial tweeter element, but rather get the xover low enough to dipole mount it above the dipole mid-bass on the baffle. The Raven 3 has a Fs of 500Hz, and a DIY dipole ribbon should be able to match this. Just another idea in case the dipole compression driver in the coaxial fails to work out.
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Old 16th April 2007, 08:08 PM   #309
JoshK is offline JoshK  Canada
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how about this one?

it uses the BMS 4552ND driver which is suppose to be a seriously bad@$$ CD. Ciare is no slouch either.
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Old 16th April 2007, 08:16 PM   #310
johninCR is offline johninCR  United States
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Before I drop the idea, is a tweeter glued to the pole piece or the horn mouth of a woofer meant for coax as reasonable idea or flawed one? Zaph shows us that some tweets in the $30 range appear much better sonically than cheap compression tweets. If so, then group discounted woofers in the $50-70 range + $30 tweets + XO parts + some machined fittings and/or waveguides + easy assembly and cone mods would seem to make for a bargain high value coax.

I realize this doesn't fit the high 90's sensitivity, but not having heard one, I don't think I'm ready for the big leagues with high $ compression drivers. Otherwise, I like the idea of a group think and experimentation to develop the ideal baffle, because those pursuits will apply to almost any driver.
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