Have idea but need guidance

[dreadmann]

I have a z-5500 speaker system but like most of the reviewers I agree that it plays loud but you feel something missing in the mid-range area when listening to music. I'm no expert but i've been thinking up ways to make up for this shortfall in an otherwise awesome system. So I stumbled onto this site where there seems to be a lot of knowlegeble but patient folks. What I want to do is replace the four surrounds probably with some type of bookshelf setup but two at a time (budget constraints). The amp sends 62 watts to each of the surrounds so I was thinking of a design that incorporated a woofer and a tweeter so that it would sound a bit more balanced and so that while playing music the speakers would be able to give a little more thump rather than a 'pop'.
Right now what I did is hooked up a pair of aiwa speakers I had lying around from an awesome but now defunct cd player. So you get a cleaner sound but still no thumping (maybe because of the 62 watts being spread across at least five speakers). Is it realistic to expect 62 watts to be able to bring out the mid-range or is what I have at the moment the best?
I will try to post some pics of the layout (it is not the ideal but I have no alternative at the moment) and if any additional info is needed feel free to ask and i'll try to come up with it.
Thanks!

[Sonusthree]

Hi Dreadmann,
Here's a link just so we know what we're talking about:
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/pr...CONTENTID=9486

Firstly, the 62 watts is probably exaggerated by the manufacturer. It's just marketing and is no real measure of power.
Secondly, the smaller speakers are probably fed a signal that has the bass removed. Using a larger driver would not necessarily give your system more 'thump'. The bass is filtered out of them at the amp anyway. This is why your Aiwa speakers aren't providing more bass as expected. They are probably clearer because they have a separate high frequency driver (tweeter).

Your sub is the only thing that provides the thump in your system. If you need more bass then try moving the sub against a wall or, for maximum effect, into the corner of your room. This increases it's efficiency.

You may be able to clear up the midrange by building yourself some small quality bookshelf speakers. They don't have to be big because they don't have any bass going to them. This might be a problem if you change your amplifier later on. In this case you would have to use a separate 'sub' to get the 'thump' that you want.

To be honest, I haven't heard this system but I doubt that it could ever be very good because it is held back by the amplifiers. Like I said, I haven't heard it but it looks a bit gimmicky.

You could compromise by planning an upgrade path. Make yourself some decent speakers and perhaps your own sub with a plan to eventually get some decent amps on the end of them. The cheapest around are the sonic impact T-amps.They would be good for the small speakers with something beefier powering the sub. Your current sub is 10" so maybe worth keeping for now.

How are your electronic skills? Are you interested in building your own amps from a kit?

Best regards,
Martin.

[Nordic]

How do you like this mod...?

http://www.metku.net/index.html?path...wood/index_eng

[Sonusthree]

I may steal the fake leather idea myself. I thought it would look terrible but ......

I would have preferred a more solid veneering without the stripes but it's a minor gripe. I just think it would look less 'mass market'

That's really got me thinking.

And Tangband drivers too!!

Excellent link Nordic

[dreadmann]

thanks sonusthree for the reply and nordic for the great mod link.
The speakers sound pretty decent but its probably hard probably to convince a pro speaker builder of that.
I was reading this thread
Logitech z5500 sattelites TB W3-871s.
but unfortunately there was no solid conclusion to it.
If someone is willing to advise I can see if I can get my hands on a voltmeter and run the tests and see if the crossover is indeed to blame for the bass weakness.
My untrained ears are telling me that this altec lansing 5 inch woofer (no enclosure) (called itself a subwoofer when it was in a 4.1 setup) I have is not quitting as fast as the logitechs when it hits the lower frequencies. I tried recording the two but I hear no discernible differences in playback.
Being on a low budget (like most diy noobs) any project that I start will have to make use of parts that I already have and any new parts would have to take into consideration that I have a 6.30:1 currency ratio with the US dollar.
I included 2 small audio files. maybe someone can listen and tell me if they notice a difference. (I will just call them 1 and 2 for now and reveal their identities after someone replies.
Thanks

[Sonusthree]

Hi Dreadmann,
The drivers seem to be of reasonable quality already but you could upgrade them if you have the money. The system's controller is cutting off the lower frequencies to the satellites. It does this so that the speaker's cones don't move so far (back and forth) and distort. The drivers are only small and would not be able to play very loud with bass to cope with. It also means that the amplifiers that power the satellites don't get overloaded.
You MIGHT have a crossover inside each speaker cabinet to limit the bass but I doubt it. New drivers alone may not give you more bass.

I still don't know what you are trying to achieve:
Are you just trying to get more bass?

Did you try out my suggestion of placing the sub in the corner of your room?
You seem to have a limited budget (like most of us around here) so what part of the sound, specifically, do you want to focus your attention on?

Your audio files seem to have disappeared into cyberspace.

Cheers,
Martin.

[Pit Hinder]

Hi Dreadmann,

your satellite drivers really are worth putting some work into. There are some easy-to-do plans available. Would you mind your front speakers being floorstanders instead of bookshelf dwellers?*
As to the sub: a 10" should be enough as long as you don't expect it to vibrate the whole house.

Pit

* http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/.../needle_en.htm

[dreadmann]

That floorstanding design looks like a good project at some point. Thanks for the link.
Yes I would like a little more bass to come from the sats.
Some music I was listening to brought up the inadequacies of the current design and I don't even play my sytem that loud (I swear).
I played along with the software crossover in the soundcard but that didn't do much.
This prompted me to begin looking for alternatives. On the particular song it sounds distorted from the sats and clean from the sub. I want to make it so that the sats don't "give up" on bass so easily.
Is this unrealistic?
So if I say decided to turn down the sub completely the sound from the sats should be able to give me a decent bass response (I'm not looking to shake the house) not sound like i have them all the way up with some horribly compressed music.
Thanks for all the help thus far.

I'll try to post the file again

[Cameron Glendin]

Yes I would like a little more bass to come from the sats.

This is a bit too obvious a point, but I guess I should ask, have you tried swapping the phasing to the sub yet, this can have a big effect on bass at the crossover frequencies.

[Sonusthree]

.... and have you tried placing the sub in a corner of your room yet?