MONTREAL HI-FI EXPO / FSI ... who went?

[JinMTVT]

I have attended to this regular yearly audio festival here in cold Montreal...and for the first year i have left the place without any interest in anything i have heard/seen there ...

There was alot of new loudspeakers manufacturers, and alot of "old" ones weren't there

this is also the first year where i wasn't impressed by any loudspeaker system at all ..
There was a few 20 000$+ louspeakers pairs
but they all sounded boring to me ..

What is with using scan-speak slitted mids?
IT seems to me that ALL the manufacturers are using the exact same driver, and are hoping that it will sound better in their product ( not that it is not a good driver..it is a really great mid driver ) but half of the systems just sounded the same ...

I have not seen 1 open baffle commercial system,
wich really surprised me considering the multiplicity of the users here that preach or use this arrangement.

I was ok impressed by the new local "TOTEM" manufacturer new wall louspeaker called :
Tribe 3

they are using a Seas custom tweeter
( same as on the Tribe 1 and Tribe 2 i believe )
and a New mid driver that they have been designing for 3 years i was told ... the representant ( and owner of the company i believe ) played the Mani-2 Reference monitors bit in stereo, and then he switched to the small Tribe 3 in MONO ( how daring ) and we were all impressed by the loudness, clearness and dispersion of this loudspeaker VS its size.
They sure aren't kind of the price at 1800$CAD/unit

but i can't help to think how 5 or more of those would sound in a mid sized room for home theater ...
( can't remember what amp/source he was using though)

The problem with this show is still the same after all the years ... all the Hotel rooms are a bit different, all have concrete walls and floors, almost square in sizes
and every display uses different electronics and sources
so that it is clearly impossible to compare any of the systems together .... unfortunatly

There was also this unpleasant room modes present in all of the rooms at different frequencies
( sometimes playing in the disturbing sub regions adding unwanted movement on my ear drums )

If any of you went there this weekend, what was your impression ?
wich system you liked ?

[Rounder]

I went this year for the first time. It was the first dhow i had ever been to. As a 19 year old amateur builder with hopes of getting into the industry it was a great experience. While i agree that some very expensive systems were as disappointing as their price, there were many interesting and unique designs that i have never encountered in retail shops. Of note was the unbelievably bass of the very inexpensive era speakers which i will now confidently recommend to almost anyone, and the teo speakers whose sealed design was the only at the show with that design as well as a digital crossover which produced a convincing realism unmatched by almost anybody. My favourite of the show was most definetly the Kharma audio speakers which by my ears were leaps and bounds above the rest with tenor electronics which outperformed the 200000 dollar pierre gabriels. The kharma's simply made music in comparison to everything else.

The learning experience was also great as vince of totem offered advice on building and getting into the industry, as well as advice from many other experts.

Of course i can comment on many more companies and designs but i could go on forever. I cant however comment on the repetition you experienced and lack of impressive systems to your ears.

Based on this being my first experience i have no complaints and i will gladly attend in the future. But i understand where you may be coming from.

[JinMTVT]

ahha ..i was also deceived alot by PGabriel's system
lack of presentation ...there was just 0 soundstage on the 4-5 orchestral presentation i listened while in this room ... i was really deceived by his presentation, unfortunatly

I have not experienced the Kharma i eblieve..i think i missed it..was it on tube amps ? cuase i've passed straight on a few rooms that were using too many tubes for my taste ...


I still can't understand how someone can try and sell
10000$ loudspeaker system that use 63$ hi-vi mids
and 34$seas tweeters ...

What exactly will you be working on ?
do you plan on starting a new company and sell loudspeaker systems ?

i can tell you that all this price nonsense will soon fall off
as too many contenders are trying to sell 11000times overpriced cheap systems ...as much as they might look good ..50%+ of the system are just in the same sounding category ...dull

have you seen ANY open baffle loudspeakers? i have not noticed any .. and i was hoping for a few Mangers drivers ehre and there..none

What is this digital crossover u are talking about ?
in wich room was that presented?
i have probably not noticed

Did you like the " USHER " system ?
i was a bit impressed by it's tiite bass and response
only to be deceived by 2-3 following records and then i left with a sour taste of 4000$ worth Class D amplifiers
( that are really worht a bout 125$ in parts and 3875$in markup )

[Grasshopper]

These are the comments I posted on AA.

"I was also at the show and I have to agree with all the comments here, spot on. As an owner of Altec A7s, the Avantgardes were very disappointing, sound was rather muddy and indistinct as compared to the A7s. Yes, what is all the fuss?
To many of the rooms were really cranking the volume, why?
Plenty of lumpy bass.
Agree with Terry's comment about the KR Audio demo, very nice, also forgot the name of the speaker, very impressive without jackass price tag.
Gershman were excellent."

Furthermore, after attending most of the shows, I find myself less and less impressed with what I'm hearing and seeing, over the top gimmickry, bling and BS.
A few displays that have really stood out over the years, Lamhorns and Harbeth from a few shows back. Even earlier, Apogee Scintilla's driven by very large Krells playing SRV's "Little Wing", sublime!

[planet10]

Originally posted by Rounder
Of course i can comment on many more companies and designs but i could go on forever.

We don't mind if you go on... your perspective as a young fledgling diyer is of interest...

dave

[JinMTVT]

Rounder: could you elaborate on what "Vince" from totem has told you ?

I still can't understand how they can justify the 1800$+ price tag of the Tribe 3, when they are using 30$ tweeters and 200$ ish in house mids on a 20$ box
with a 15$ front grill and no finition ..

What is your current experience as far as manufacturing loudspeakers just for info ?


Dave : have you ever assisted to montreal's FSI ?

[planet10]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
Dave : have you ever assisted to montreal's FSI ?

No.. the last major Canadian hifi show i attended was Toronto in 1980.

dave

[JinMTVT]

And how can you explain your abscence ?

[planet10]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
I still can't understand how they can justify the 1800$+ price tag of the Tribe 3, when they are using 30$ tweeters and 200$ ish in house mids on a 20$ box
with a 15$ front grill and no finition ..

It is unlikely the tweeter costs that little or the midbass that much. And having manufactured speaker enclosures, i can tell you with certainty that the cost of a set of boxes to the quality Totem builds is far more than $20. And don't forget the XO. And the economics of being a speaker manufacture have far more costs than that.

If the speaker is sold retail for 1800, then the dealer pays $1080 - 1200 each, and then there is a distributors markup (even if Totem does it themselves), which leaves them $250-$350 for drivers, cabinets, XOs, and packing boxes.

If my Fonkens were being built for regular channels of distribution they would be $1700-2000 CAD/pr (instead of the $700/pr we sell complete units for or the ~200-300 it would cost to build them yourself) Note: (IMHO) even at that "retail" price they would be competitive,

The above equation clearly illustrates why every frugal-phile (tm) is building a significant portion of their system

dave

[planet10]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
And how can you explain your abscence ?

I'm poor and i don't really care?

Besides isn't airfare to Montreal about the same as to London? I could get a lot more advantage out of that trip.

dave