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Old 6th November 2013, 09:29 AM   #11
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Have you even tried googling? There's a lot of research and patents on the subject. It's worth noting that most (all except one) of the patents have expired as I mentioned earlier.

Would I think a recording of a sound ought to have the harmonics already present that correctly help your brain imaginatively recreate the fundamental? No, and it's not a question of what I think or believe, it has already been empirically proven that it is not the case.

To be clear. This technique is completely different from traditional bass boost techniques in that it does not increase the amount of low frequency energy content. It actually substantially limits it. It increases the low frequency phon content, i.e. the amount of perceived sound.

To give a primer here's the AES paper for Waves Ltd. MaxxBass implementation.

http://www.maxx.com/objects/PDF/MaxxBassAESPaper.pdf

Last edited by Saturnus; 6th November 2013 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 6th November 2013, 09:51 AM   #12
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Saturnus -

Thanks for the link. But for a guy who reacts so tartly by being asked for evidence as you seem to be, couldn't you find a link with:

1. references that aren't 18 years at the youngest

2. empirical testing on humans (which gave me an opportunity to reflect on the variety of people who post on the web considering your flaming retort about, "... not what I think.... empirically proven....")

I found your response needlessly offensive. BTW, "...wouldn't you think..." is the way a polite Canadian says, "... I have a suspicion that what you are saying is full of ..."

Ben
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:06 AM   #13
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Would I think a recording of a sound ought to have the harmonics already present that correctly help your brain imaginatively recreate the fundamental? No
Well, not no, I would expect this to have already been done by the engineer at the recording studio (using the afore mentioned Maxxbass plugin, tube compressor, analog tape machine or the bass player's tube amp ) if he thought the music required it.

The easiest way to implement it yourself would be using a crossover to split off the bottom octave, running it through a distortion algorithm to generate harmonics, then mixing it back in with the original signal. I don't see any distortion algorithms for the MiniDSP, so maybe just use an undersized tube amp to drive your subwoofer.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Thanks for the link. But for a guy who reacts so tartly by being asked for evidence as you seem to be, couldn't you find a link with:
I'm sorry if it come of as snide but psychoacoustic research is a very big area in modern acoustic research. And it should be well-known to anyone in the audio engineering circle. I just figured it would be common knowledge.

Here's a paper from the 2006 AES conference that described a practical low complexity implementation for headphones. It is just a plug-in similar to this that I request for the miniDSP.

http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~marora/files/papers/13868.pdf
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by scopeboy View Post
Well, not no, I would expect this to have already been done by the engineer at the recording studio (using the afore mentioned Maxxbass plugin, tube compressor, analog tape machine or the bass player's tube amp ) if he thought the music required it.
By that you mean the recording engineer, or actually mastering engineer as it would be, should dictate or accurately predict the type of speakers you are using for reproduction?

And I have no problem creating virtual bass enhanced material, there are numerous plug-ins and other simpler techniques that can be used. I merely request such a function for the miniDSP.

I might also add that the addition of virtual bass is not only relevant for recorded music playback. It can also be used for a compact portable bass guitar monitor. Especially for practice use. As we know lower frequencies travels through buildings more easily than higher frequency content it would be a great benefit to be able to replace that very low frequency content with a higher frequency virtual content without affecting the sound.

Last edited by Saturnus; 6th November 2013 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturnus View Post
I'm sorry if it come of as snide but psychoacoustic research is a very big area in modern acoustic research. And it should be well-known to anyone in the audio engineering circle. I just figured it would be common knowledge.

Here's a paper from the 2006 AES conference that described a practical low complexity implementation for headphones. It is just a plug-in similar to this that I request for the miniDSP.

http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~marora/files/papers/13868.pdf
Apology accepted.... on the other hand, is it really necessary for you to insert a nasty put-down like "should be well-known to anyone in the audio engineering circle" as if those* lacking this information are boobies.

Thanks for the link. But isn't there any research with humans? There are lots of ways to augment (and over-augment) bass and to implement "loudness" compensation; but I'm curious about the special theory you seem to be endorsing about certain partials.

Ben
*I wouldn't be surprised if there are people on this thread who have taught university courses in perception yet are unfamiliar with "... should be well-known...", ahem, ahem
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Last edited by bentoronto; 6th November 2013 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:51 AM   #17
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While there's a lot of research going on, unfortunately precious few articles are publicly available as everyone studying the field seem to be snatched up by companies with interest in the area.

AAU (Aalborg University Center), DTU (Danish Institute of Technology) and MIT are the primary places to find relevant research papers into the field. (Unfortunately much of the research is Danish language only).

Last edited by Saturnus; 6th November 2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 6th November 2013, 10:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Saturnus View Post
While there's a lot of research going on, unfortunately precious few articles are publicly available as everyone studying the field seem to be snatched up by companies with interest in the area.

AUC (Aalborg University Center), DTU (Danish Institute of Technology) and MIT are the primary places to find relevant research papers into the field. (Unfortunately much of the research is Danish language only).
Must be a conspiracy.

B.
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Old 6th November 2013, 11:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Saturnus View Post
By that you mean the recording engineer, or actually mastering engineer as it would be, should dictate or accurately predict the type of speakers you are using for reproduction?
Yes. Studios commonly use small monitor speakers that are supposed to be representative of the average hi-fi system, and tailor the material to sound good on those.

Quote:
I might also add that the addition of virtual bass is not only relevant for recorded music playback. It can also be used for a compact portable bass guitar monitor. Especially for practice use.
An underpowered cheap practice amp with an open-backed speaker cabinet will do exactly the same thing.
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Old 6th November 2013, 01:09 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by scopeboy View Post
Yes. Studios commonly use small monitor speakers that are supposed to be representative of the average hi-fi system, and tailor the material to sound good on those.
Not the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopeboy View Post
An underpowered cheap practice amp with an open-backed speaker cabinet will do exactly the same thing.
No.

Since you obviously don't grasp what the concept and use is, why comment?
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