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Old 6th May 2014, 04:34 PM   #41
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"Loudness" compensation in playback equipment has always puzzled me since I think the ear/brain adjusts for this automatically. When I go to the Seattle Symphony does the orchestra need to "equalize" their sound when playing softly vice full force? Everything we hear in nature is not equalized depending upon absolute SPL.

Dave.
Yup. Many funny issues I've pondered over the years... without a good conclusion. For the moment, I can't think of an analogy from visual perception.

But in audiophile practice, I think it is fair to say that music at home sounds better when there's some boosting of the bass as the loudness goes down and the olde Fletcher-Munson curves (as realized by 4-pot "loundess" volume controls) fits nicely (assuming you've done the gain management needed).

Long, long ago, there was a false interpretation of the FM curves that suggested treble be boosted too. I am not sure how many people advocate a bit of treble tweaking too, regardless of the FM curves.

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Old 9th May 2014, 04:26 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davey View Post
"Loudness" compensation in playback equipment has always puzzled me since I think the ear/brain adjusts for this automatically. When I go to the Seattle Symphony does the orchestra need to "equalize" their sound when playing softly vice full force? Everything we hear in nature is not equalized depending upon absolute SPL.
The orchestra sounds very different at mp than they do at fff, though.

The idea of loudness correction is to get the listener to perceive the mp as mp and the fff as fff, even if the overall level is lower.
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Old 11th May 2014, 10:55 PM   #43
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bass and treble sound totally different at low levels , mids are not that afected by level
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Old 22nd May 2014, 05:41 PM   #44
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So, is this idea going anywhere?

The reason I ask is because I had the exact same idea just the other day and then I was quite happy to find that someone had already suggested it to the miniDSP team.

What I'd like is an automatic continuously variable loudness control (ACVLC!). I have no interest in using the miniDSP volume pot for this. Getting up off my butt to change a manual loudness control dial every time I change my main volume would render my pre-amp remote control useless.

If the miniDSP could simply apply a user-configurable amount of F-M curve based on the input signal level, it would be perfect. Set it and forget it. Great "loudness" response at all listening levels, without leaving your chair.

In the meantime, I simply configured EQ settings that sound excellent at my "average" listening levels. Bass is lacking at very low volume, but if the volume is that low then usually it is my wife listening and she would never notice. When I crank up the volume to much louder than normal, I just let the bass shake the house. Not ideal, but much better than tweaking the EQ every time I change the volume.

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Old 22nd May 2014, 06:07 PM   #45
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What I'd like is an automatic continuously variable loudness control (ACVLC!). I have no interest in using the miniDSP volume pot for this. Getting up off my butt to change a manual loudness control dial every time I change my main volume would render my pre-amp remote control useless.
Granted, nobody I've ever heard from seems to understand how Fletcher-Munson works in real life, myself certainly included. But for sure, what you are talking about, if I actually understand what you are suggesting, seems inapplicable.

It is easy to utter the words,".... and when the music is soft, use the 80dB curve....". But it is quite another thing to have a transistor triggered for "soft" since even the loudest moments of music have silent instances.

It is possible to have a time-weighted averaging and many circuits do things like that. But that's not part of the Fletcher-Munson curve family and I have never seen that kind of "3D or "4D" data, even though it is in-theory possible.

To make a long story short, just as "dB flat" is a non-starter for tuning your music system, likely for loudness compensation from Fletcher-Munson curves too. In both cases, we can each choose "personal corrections" that make the music sound right to us. But that's personal taste. It is comforting to be able to "quote" curves to support our actions. But it is rare to be able to rest-your-case at that point.

If it is a matter of personal taste, no need to wait for somebody else to create a Fletcher-Munson-tuned device.

Ben
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Last edited by bentoronto; 22nd May 2014 at 06:09 PM.
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