MiniDSP as Linkwitz Orion ASP - Page 9

john k... · 07:51 PM

I've run the NaO Note and the NaO II using the 2x4 and the newer 2x8 with 24/96. The only problem I had with the 2x4 was the limited output of 0.9 V RMS limiting the output of my amp to about 50 watts before the 2x4 clipped. With the 2x8 and the higher output I am hard pressed to hear a significant difference between the fully active NaO II in analog mode or dsp mode. Certainly noise and dynamic range are not issues at all.

Currently I am running this fully active off the 2x8 with very good results. With 125 watt amps the speaker will produce greater that 100dB (music) SPL at my listening position and easily handle peaks in excess of 110 db.

Davey · 30th October 2011, 03:04 PM

John,

The 2x8 platform does have considerable noise out-of-band (in the 100khz region) owing to the noise shaping. Whether this is an issue or not depends upon the downstream components.
The 2x4 platform is quite a bit lower noise, in this regard.

Cheers,

Dave.

NYCOne · 30th October 2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

Sorry that I didn't make that clear in my posting. Of course I've tried it.

I'm aware of a number of folks who've done it. In PM conversations I got the impression a few of them did it correctly and a few of them didn't. They are not close to me geographically so I couldn't audition any of those systems first hand.

Your suspicion is perfectly valid. Why not try it and judge for yourself?

Cheers,

Dave.

I'm trying to understand the details to do just that. I'm not facile with AXOs, I've only built relatively simple ones to date. Programming the Orion transfer function from scratch is cool, but I don't get the details well enough yet.

john k... · 1st November 2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

John,

The 2x8 platform does have considerable noise out-of-band (in the 100khz region) owing to the noise shaping. Whether this is an issue or not depends upon the downstream components.
The 2x4 platform is quite a bit lower noise, in this regard.

Cheers,

Dave.

It certainly has not been any concern in my applications. The increased output of the 2x8 is far more of a factor.

Davey · 16th November 2011, 01:13 AM

John,

All I'm saying is that kind of noise is a show-stopper for some folks. Maybe not you or me, but some folks.

One of your NaO systems utilizing a DSP crossover vice an analog one might be a show-stopper for some folks too.

This type of noise content from DSP gadgets nowadays is not unusual. I have a variety of black boxes on my test bench that are very similar.

Cheers,

Dave.

SAC · 25th November 2012, 09:48 AM

It is interesting to see the 2X4 being preferred on quality grounds (noise in this instance) over the 2X8. Maybe there is not much difference between these units other than convenience (I really want to go dual 2X4s and have one attached to each stereo speaker, but am concerned the 2X4 will be inferior sounding - perhaps due to inferior adc/dac conversion and maybe other issues).

Sounds like the revB does not help the specific 0.9V signal level issue John mentions here from what I have read elsewhere.

Thinking out loud, I wonder is there a benefit in having a transformer just before the minidsp (like I do on my current PLLXO to account for input losses)?

Pallas · 25th November 2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAC

Sounds like the revB does not help the specific 0.9V signal level issue John mentions here from what I have read elsewhere.

The balanced one does output a hotter signal. But in most systems you'll need to make adapters for the Phoenix connectors. It's neither particularly hard nor particularly time-consuming.

SAC · 25th November 2012, 12:10 PM

Nice link there! Would wire direct to amps in my case though - Minidsp screw terminals to AMP9 screw terminals.

Pallas · 25th November 2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAC

Nice link there! Would wire direct to amps in my case though - Minidsp screw terminals to AMP9 screw terminals.

Then the balanced one is definitely the better choice. If you don't already have signal wire, I like Belden 9154, because it has a foil shield with drain wire (no need to bundle up a shield and tin it to put it in the ground terminal) and the leads of the hot/ground twisted pair are tinned for corrosion resistance.

Davey · 25th November 2012, 03:33 PM

Unfortunately, the hookup configuration in that link is somewhat misleading. It's fine for the miniDSP inputs, but taking one side of the output configuration to ground accomplishes nothing. The MiniDSP units have a rather high output impedance so grounding one side won't damage anything. For a simple unbalanced output from the miniDSP just use the "S" and "+" connections and leave the "-" connection unused.

I'm not sure why you would use both a miniDSP and a PLLXO. Can you elaborate?

Cheers,

Dave.

29th October 2011, 07:48 PM	#81
john k... diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: US	I've run the NaO Note and the NaO II using the 2x4 and the newer 2x8 with 24/96. The only problem I had with the 2x4 was the limited output of 0.9 V RMS limiting the output of my amp to about 50 watts before the 2x4 clipped. With the 2x8 and the higher output I am hard pressed to hear a significant difference between the fully active NaO II in analog mode or dsp mode. Certainly noise and dynamic range are not issues at all. Currently I am running this fully active off the 2x8 with very good results. With 125 watt amps the speaker will produce greater that 100dB (music) SPL at my listening position and easily handle peaks in excess of 110 db. __________________ John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers. Last edited by john k...; 29th October 2011 at 07:51 PM.

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30th October 2011, 03:04 PM	#82
Davey diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bremerton, WA.	John, The 2x8 platform does have considerable noise out-of-band (in the 100khz region) owing to the noise shaping. Whether this is an issue or not depends upon the downstream components. The 2x4 platform is quite a bit lower noise, in this regard. Cheers, Dave.

16th November 2011, 01:13 AM	#85
Davey diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bremerton, WA.	John, All I'm saying is that kind of noise is a show-stopper for some folks. Maybe not you or me, but some folks. One of your NaO systems utilizing a DSP crossover vice an analog one might be a show-stopper for some folks too. This type of noise content from DSP gadgets nowadays is not unusual. I have a variety of black boxes on my test bench that are very similar. Cheers, Dave.

25th November 2012, 09:48 AM	#86
SAC diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London	It is interesting to see the 2X4 being preferred on quality grounds (noise in this instance) over the 2X8. Maybe there is not much difference between these units other than convenience (I really want to go dual 2X4s and have one attached to each stereo speaker, but am concerned the 2X4 will be inferior sounding - perhaps due to inferior adc/dac conversion and maybe other issues). Sounds like the revB does not help the specific 0.9V signal level issue John mentions here from what I have read elsewhere. Thinking out loud, I wonder is there a benefit in having a transformer just before the minidsp (like I do on my current PLLXO to account for input losses)?

25th November 2012, 12:10 PM	#88
SAC diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London	Nice link there! Would wire direct to amps in my case though - Minidsp screw terminals to AMP9 screw terminals.

25th November 2012, 03:33 PM	#90
Davey diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bremerton, WA.	Unfortunately, the hookup configuration in that link is somewhat misleading. It's fine for the miniDSP inputs, but taking one side of the output configuration to ground accomplishes nothing. The MiniDSP units have a rather high output impedance so grounding one side won't damage anything. For a simple unbalanced output from the miniDSP just use the "S" and "+" connections and leave the "-" connection unused. I'm not sure why you would use both a miniDSP and a PLLXO. Can you elaborate? Cheers, Dave.