No, the limiting factor for digital attenuation is that the DAC itself can handle 24 bit resolution. If you want to attenuate this signal then you send in a smaller signal with less bits.
Using 32 bit float or integers with more bits as the MiniDSP does when doing actual DSP calculations does not magically turn a 24 bit DAC into a DAC 32 bit.
No need to get loud 
By the way: analog volume control does affect S/N ratio!
If you don't like digital attenuation for whatever reason look for a multichannel analog volume control (don't forget to check if they don't suffer from interchannel difference). There are many available here or at ebay, either relay or PGA based.
By the way: analog volume control does affect S/N ratio!
If you don't like digital attenuation for whatever reason look for a multichannel analog volume control (don't forget to check if they don't suffer from interchannel difference
). There are many available here or at ebay, either relay or PGA based.PROPERLY DESIGN ANALOG does not affect the s/n ratio for its full sweep range.
its constant.. if done right. s/n ration 112 db 0v out 2.8 v out 112 db!!!
with varing voltage inputs from 0- 2 v Input/
where digital attenuation , done incorrectly can cause sever loss of s/n ratio thru the attenuation sections..
then again done properly it will not..
all stand by whai i osted earlier and back by a 20 yr digital designer..
I just want to know how the dsp handles the volume before I plunk down 500
not knocik the unit but it is a diving factor to replace my dcx..
its constant.. if done right. s/n ration 112 db 0v out 2.8 v out 112 db!!!
with varing voltage inputs from 0- 2 v Input/
where digital attenuation , done incorrectly can cause sever loss of s/n ratio thru the attenuation sections..
then again done properly it will not..
all stand by whai i osted earlier and back by a 20 yr digital designer..
I just want to know how the dsp handles the volume before I plunk down 500
not knocik the unit but it is a diving factor to replace my dcx..
ok 24 bit in 32 bit processing( or 28?) add (8) 0's to the end of chain oops digital level went up..good!!
do processing
process to 24 bit or turncate out to 24 bit?? which is it?
if you use the digital volume control it should be in the cpu after the processing
that way you dont lose bits and maintain s/n ratio. before you cut to 24 bits
do processing
process to 24 bit or turncate out to 24 bit?? which is it?
if you use the digital volume control it should be in the cpu after the processing
that way you dont lose bits and maintain s/n ratio. before you cut to 24 bits
An excellent way to get that information is to read their own spec sheets, which you obviously haven't. It's almost all in there though.
"Algorithm resolution: Double precision filters (56bits resolution)"
"Algorithm resolution: Double precision filters (56bits resolution)"
Thats FOR THE PLUG IN ollboll
not the hardware and that shows the volume control done in the analog domain
along with phase and delay.. dont think so.. and it only shows digital fader gain control
where and how is it processed real simple question. pre cpu post cpu or duing in cpu pre processing or cpu post processing..
since i cant find pic of 4x10 board and chip list now way to know from what is provided.. much less nay good AP measurements..
i don't see why people r so pissy because im asking simple questions that don't seem to get an answer or conflicting info on!
like i said $500 is alot to lay down without this kind of specific answers
and i have read the spec sheets and they are conflicting or incomplete
i wont post the vague answer from my email they sent id didnt answer my question either.,
not the hardware and that shows the volume control done in the analog domain
along with phase and delay.. dont think so.. and it only shows digital fader gain control
where and how is it processed real simple question. pre cpu post cpu or duing in cpu pre processing or cpu post processing..
since i cant find pic of 4x10 board and chip list now way to know from what is provided.. much less nay good AP measurements..
i don't see why people r so pissy because im asking simple questions that don't seem to get an answer or conflicting info on!
like i said $500 is alot to lay down without this kind of specific answers
and i have read the spec sheets and they are conflicting or incomplete
i wont post the vague answer from my email they sent id didnt answer my question either.,
That's probably because the volume control isn't done in the analogue domain but rather in the digital domain.
I think the problem is that you are asking questions that don't make sense, like for example talking about a CPU where none exists on the board or is needed.
You can use an analogue pot to control the volume level, but the volume changes themselves are all digital as they should be.
I haven't yet seen anyone else refer the DSP chips as CPUs, the most common use of CPU is rather the general purpose ones you find in modern computers. You confused me there since I assumed you meant a normal CPU.
The plugin data sheet linked above says: "Analog potentiometer control master output digital gain fader from –80 to 0dB. Disabled if no pot connected."
Couldn't find any other info about analog volume control
Just to make it clear: All signal processing (including volume control) is done in the SigmaDSP ADAU1445. Output volume control (per channel and master) is done after all the other processing (crossover, EQ) probably using the build in Sigma DSP algorithms (why invent the wheel again?) and with 28bit depth (see this post from DevTeam in the miniDSP forum) in the digital domain. More info about algorithms used you might be able to find in the ADAU1445 datasheet or in the documentation about the sigmastudio software.
Hope this answers your question.
Best regards, Daniel
Couldn't find any other info about analog volume control
Just to make it clear: All signal processing (including volume control) is done in the SigmaDSP ADAU1445. Output volume control (per channel and master) is done after all the other processing (crossover, EQ) probably using the build in Sigma DSP algorithms (why invent the wheel again?) and with 28bit depth (see this post from DevTeam in the miniDSP forum) in the digital domain. More info about algorithms used you might be able to find in the ADAU1445 datasheet or in the documentation about the sigmastudio software.
Hope this answers your question.
Best regards, Daniel
Analog volume controls easily outperform digital, unless the
digital control has access to the data path of the DAC
(ie is internal to the DAC)
RIGHT IN THE DAC NOT In the THE DSP LIKE MINI USES
the bits have to be added to signal before any processing is done.
thanks for the clarifying that.. info is randomly scattered around and placed in places like the plugins( software) and i looked all over to try to decipher this crap
noit to mention too many AD verisions to sort thru the data sheet.. one thing is confusing the data sheet for the ad shows only a -46 db volume limit..???
digital control has access to the data path of the DAC
(ie is internal to the DAC)
RIGHT IN THE DAC NOT In the THE DSP LIKE MINI USES
the bits have to be added to signal before any processing is done.
thanks for the clarifying that.. info is randomly scattered around and placed in places like the plugins( software) and i looked all over to try to decipher this crap
noit to mention too many AD verisions to sort thru the data sheet.. one thing is confusing the data sheet for the ad shows only a -46 db volume limit..???
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You are giving a confused impression again. When digital attenuation is done bits are removed, not added.
And digital is superior. Since we use 24 bit DACs we have at least 8 bits we can chop off without introducing a noticeable noise in relation to the output and after that the output level is too low anyway so it doesn't matter.
If we only had 16 bits then sure we would have to do it in the DAC in such a way that no resolution is lost but we don't and therefore we can happily attenuate by chopping off bits before sending it into the DAC.
Rather than start another thread I figured I'd post here in the answers to your questions thread.
I just ordered a miniDSP 4x10 HD, and the UMIK-1 mic. I downloaded and installed the latest version of REW and installed the software plug-in. Now I'm just waiting for the gear to arrive.
From what I've read, all I need to supply is a IEC cord for my "boxed" unit. I keep reading posts about needing a wall wart though. The wall wart is just for the DIY set-up isn't it?
I just ordered a miniDSP 4x10 HD, and the UMIK-1 mic. I downloaded and installed the latest version of REW and installed the software plug-in. Now I'm just waiting for the gear to arrive.
From what I've read, all I need to supply is a IEC cord for my "boxed" unit. I keep reading posts about needing a wall wart though. The wall wart is just for the DIY set-up isn't it?
If I remember correctly the boxed 4x10 has no internal power supply and so you need an external 12v supply.
I'M NOT CONFUSED..
YOU CANNOT DECIMATE 24 BITS -80DB AND NOT LOSE RESOLUTION
you have to add zeros somewhere to allow the decimation back to 24 bit.
that is why the processing now is done in 32 bit or higher..
read this
http://www.esstech.com/PDF/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf
YOU CANNOT DECIMATE 24 BITS -80DB AND NOT LOSE RESOLUTION
you have to add zeros somewhere to allow the decimation back to 24 bit.
that is why the processing now is done in 32 bit or higher..
read this
http://www.esstech.com/PDF/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf
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No, you can't but you are confused in the way that you think it matters.
If your gain structure is ok then full volume is maybe 120 db at 1 m. At 80 db attenuation you are down at 40 db for the main signal. Even if the product noise introduced due to resolution loss is 60 db down from main it is at - 20 db and doesn't matter.
If your gain structure is ok then full volume is maybe 120 db at 1 m. At 80 db attenuation you are down at 40 db for the main signal. Even if the product noise introduced due to resolution loss is 60 db down from main it is at - 20 db and doesn't matter.
Dear IMSTOOPID,
we all understood that you don't like digital volume control for the reasons mentioned many times now. Also it is well explained how the volume control is done in the miniDSP products.
Finally its each individuals experience and decision wether he can live with digital volume control or not. So now you can decide on your own based on the information given
In my very personal experience the digital volume control as used in the miniDSP products works without noticable signal degradation given you have done your homework with respect to propper gain staging. And in the latter case it will not be necessary to reduce the gain by 80dB. Nevertheless I agree that analog volume control is still better if you need a lot of attenuation (but then you've not done your homework).
Best regards, Daniel
we all understood that you don't like digital volume control for the reasons mentioned many times now. Also it is well explained how the volume control is done in the miniDSP products.
Finally its each individuals experience and decision wether he can live with digital volume control or not. So now you can decide on your own based on the information given
In my very personal experience the digital volume control as used in the miniDSP products works without noticable signal degradation given you have done your homework with respect to propper gain staging. And in the latter case it will not be necessary to reduce the gain by 80dB. Nevertheless I agree that analog volume control is still better if you need a lot of attenuation (but then you've not done your homework
).I can not follow. Maybe you can explain. How is S/N ratio defined? What about resistor noise?
Best regards, Daniel
the analog volume control smd resistor ladder will maintain a 112db s/n ratio from 0v to 2.5v input.. with max out 2.8/5.6v bal output.
and yes when you are mixing balanced and unbalanced gear you need at least -60 db of gain in some cases.. regardless of gain staging.. my system routinely runs at -20 db for normal listening because of the mix of 4 different amps all with different gains 23/26/29/32 and some are balanced input some are unbalanced..
each was chosen for a specific job for a specific driver and it';s power out..(and cost)
oh yea and 4 way active with speakrs ranging form 85-93 db sensitivity.. makes the whole gain thing a total cluster .lol
I would like to run it lower but I run out of gain cut on the dcx right now..
a 4 way active system gets LOUD fast with log control pots..
this is one place I prefer linear pots/.
and yes when you are mixing balanced and unbalanced gear you need at least -60 db of gain in some cases.. regardless of gain staging.. my system routinely runs at -20 db for normal listening because of the mix of 4 different amps all with different gains 23/26/29/32 and some are balanced input some are unbalanced..
each was chosen for a specific job for a specific driver and it';s power out..(and cost)
oh yea and 4 way active with speakrs ranging form 85-93 db sensitivity.. makes the whole gain thing a total cluster .lol
I would like to run it lower but I run out of gain cut on the dcx right now..
a 4 way active system gets LOUD fast with log control pots..
this is one place I prefer linear pots/.
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