hello durwood,
in short: Yes, changes are reflected in realtime or a fraction of second.
So you can play with settings and instantly hear (or measure) what is going on at the output stage.
longer:
I downloaded i.e. the minidsp stereo-PEQ-Crosover plugin.
Installed the Adobe AIR on my Windows XP Laptop
Started the plugin
Connected the minidsp board to USB port
After some seconds, communication between the two devices is enabled.
Started to synchronize my Crossover settings to the minidsp board
After this first synchronization, the communication channel is "online",
meaning now you can play instantly with settings.
Just remember to save the desired version of your settings to PC.
You have no way to read out settings from minidsp.
Settings (XML File) are only valid with the used plugin!
Could not resist to write, as this is my hands on experience with the device.
in short: Yes, changes are reflected in realtime or a fraction of second.
So you can play with settings and instantly hear (or measure) what is going on at the output stage.
longer:
I downloaded i.e. the minidsp stereo-PEQ-Crosover plugin.
Installed the Adobe AIR on my Windows XP Laptop
Started the plugin
Connected the minidsp board to USB port
After some seconds, communication between the two devices is enabled.
Started to synchronize my Crossover settings to the minidsp board
After this first synchronization, the communication channel is "online",
meaning now you can play instantly with settings.
Just remember to save the desired version of your settings to PC.
You have no way to read out settings from minidsp.
Settings (XML File) are only valid with the used plugin!
Could not resist to write, as this is my hands on experience with the device.
Banned
Joined 2002
This generates more questions.
"You have no way to read out settings from minidsp."
If you have no way to read out the current settings in the DSP, and let's say you have no config file saved on your PC-what happens during sync? Does it delete or reset the DSP? Does it create a new/temp file with a your current settings?
WHat if the plugin version changes to add features. Would the XML file layout change and be incompatible with older saved XML files? Or is it not a problem?
More questions...
I see it can be set to master/slave and share a clock.
1) How many of these can you connect together and synchronize the clocks? Is it software limited rather than hardware limited? I.E. what if the user wants more than 8 channels?
2) The power on sequence notes indicate master needs to be powered on first. makes sense. If using multiples, does it handle the sequence for the user or is it the user's responsibilty to devise a control method?
3) How accurate is the timing when setting up multiple units via this master/slave clock?
I see it can be set to master/slave and share a clock.
1) How many of these can you connect together and synchronize the clocks? Is it software limited rather than hardware limited? I.E. what if the user wants more than 8 channels?
2) The power on sequence notes indicate master needs to be powered on first. makes sense. If using multiples, does it handle the sequence for the user or is it the user's responsibilty to devise a control method?
3) How accurate is the timing when setting up multiple units via this master/slave clock?
Thanks to SpDriver for answering that question from your experience.
In answer to other good questions asked above, here is our answer:
- If you never make any configuration offline (i.e. not connected to the board), then essentially, the fact that you didn't saved the config file doesn't matter. Each plug-in has a single configuration file (xml) that is active when the plug-in is started, no matter if it's online of offline. This configuration file is reloaded from the last time the plug-in was used. So if you start your plug-in, make some changes, go online to synchronize that configuration, turn off the software (without saving). When you switch the software ON again, you will have the last known configuration and will be able to synchronize again without having to worry.
- Only if you decide to make changes offline will you have to be conscious that the configuration will simply overwrite the current configuration.
E.g. when we went from 4 way graphic EQ to 4 way PEQ. Although these are 4way crossovers, they are completely different in the architecture of the DSP and required a complete rework of the plug-in and the firmware. So no compatibility in this case.
I'd recommend to have a look at our user manual since most
I tried a long explanation before on this topic, explaining what's that master/slave jumper on the miniDSP all about. I think it's best to refer to it first so that I don't repeat myself. Maybe have a look at our forum at the following link . I think that it will clarify a couple of points with regards to MCLK, how it works and how you could envision using this for your system.
Hope this makes sense.
In answer to other good questions asked above, here is our answer:
The device is a USB selfpowered device so it can be powered from a simple USB power supply (e.g. usb charger), or you can use an external DC supply (5 to 24V) connected to the expansion port. See tech notes in the download section for more info.
That's correct, you can't read out settings. Things to know:
- If you never make any configuration offline (i.e. not connected to the board), then essentially, the fact that you didn't saved the config file doesn't matter. Each plug-in has a single configuration file (xml) that is active when the plug-in is started, no matter if it's online of offline. This configuration file is reloaded from the last time the plug-in was used. So if you start your plug-in, make some changes, go online to synchronize that configuration, turn off the software (without saving). When you switch the software ON again, you will have the last known configuration and will be able to synchronize again without having to worry.
- Only if you decide to make changes offline will you have to be conscious that the configuration will simply overwrite the current configuration.
Providing you're talking of the same plug-in, same DSP block arrangement (see the flow diagram), adding features will not require you to purchase a new plug-in. However there are cases where the plug-ins are different (even if they are supposed to do the same thing), and unfortunately, we can't keep the same config file. Simply impossible.
E.g. when we went from 4 way graphic EQ to 4 way PEQ. Although these are 4way crossovers, they are completely different in the architecture of the DSP and required a complete rework of the plug-in and the firmware. So no compatibility in this case.
I'd recommend to have a look at our user manual since most
As mentioned previously, you can't stack 2 miniDSP on top of each other and use a single USB. not possible for hardware reasons as you would require a USB hub to talk to each board. On the software side, it's also not possible to control 2 boards from a single plug-in. However, it is possible as mentioned in the I2S note to put a miniDSP in I2S slave.
I tried a long explanation before on this topic, explaining what's that master/slave jumper on the miniDSP all about. I think it's best to refer to it first so that I don't repeat myself. Maybe have a look at our forum at the following link . I think that it will clarify a couple of points with regards to MCLK, how it works and how you could envision using this for your system.
Hope this makes sense.
I understand you can only control one DSP at a time through the USB, my concern (which maybe I need to understand I2S better) is how many DSP boards can share I2S timing/clock? If someone wanted an active surround sound system, or maybe playing with arrays they will need >8 channels and they should share a clock.
It is my understanding from others that the DSP shares signal GND with power GND. Say it ain't so. It really can't be that expensive to add in an opamp differential input can it? Much better for dealing with potential ground loops-because it will happen.
Are you limited to using only one plugin with each DSP board? I.E. you cannot string plugins together?
Delay max 10ms? Can this be larger for those who want >10ms to simualte surround/HAAS effect?
It is my understanding from others that the DSP shares signal GND with power GND. Say it ain't so. It really can't be that expensive to add in an opamp differential input can it? Much better for dealing with potential ground loops-because it will happen.
Are you limited to using only one plugin with each DSP board? I.E. you cannot string plugins together?
Delay max 10ms? Can this be larger for those who want >10ms to simualte surround/HAAS effect?
Last edited:
totally sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I am going to ask this even though I can see that you guys are insanely busy with development and hell just released a new version but why not...
I am a firm believer of spacial averaging.. So matching L & R with 31 bands of graphic is crucial IMO.. but having a post 3-6 bands of PEG for tonality adjustments would also kick allot of ****...
So in essence... can in the future I have my cake and eat it to?
So I am going to ask this even though I can see that you guys are insanely busy with development and hell just released a new version but why not...
I am a firm believer of spacial averaging.. So matching L & R with 31 bands of graphic is crucial IMO.. but having a post 3-6 bands of PEG for tonality adjustments would also kick allot of ****...
So in essence... can in the future I have my cake and eat it to?
I think that to answer that question, I would need to really have a better idea of the system you're trying to put together. As mentioned earlier, there is a difference between I2S slave/master and Master Clock (MCLK) slave/master and some are hardware configured while others (I2S) could be software configured. Instead of trying to go through all cases, or starting a long rambling about it, please clarify what exact scenario (maybe a schema) you're trying to have with multiple miniDSP? Then I'll try to see how that would be possible or not.
A differential input for a balanced line would mean a split supply (+/-) which from a self powered USB device (+5V) isn't going to work that great. Stepping back to the miniDSP concept, miniDSP is the brain, the other cards are the I/O. It just happens to have un-balanced in&out. If there is a need for balanced input or wanting to use what we'd call "forward referencing" on the inputs, I'm afraid that it's going to be hard to make it happen on the miniDSP board itself.
Yes that's correct. Only a single plug-in per miniDSP board.
mmmh, curious where you might have read about this 10ms delay... We used to have it in our initial plug-in version but as we added features, we realized that we couldn't fit 10ms (which answer your question that in 4way, 7.5ms is the max). It's now 7.5ms (2.5m) and that's what is shown on all our datasheet. Thanks for letting us know if we made an omission somewhere on our website. These things happen.
Hello Trusound,
Glad to hear that you find our products "sweet!"... lol
Unless i'm misunderstanding your questions, 31bands graphic Eq are indeed already there (check the plug-in section) for 2way and 4way crossovers.
As for the PEG, I'm guessing that you're thinking PEQ (as Parametric EQualizers with 3 parameters to be modified : frequency, gain, q).
These are also available under the plug-in 2way PEQ and 4wayPEQ.
Hope this makes sense,
Man... your Customer Service skills are top notch..
Sorry to beat this in the head but I want to make sure we are on the same field here..
on all channels available, I can have 31 bands per xover and 6 peq bands post xover per channel?.. Plus T/A and gain?
If that is the case, you and I are now best friends..lol
Sorry to beat this in the head but I want to make sure we are on the same field here..
on all channels available, I can have 31 bands per xover and 6 peq bands post xover per channel?.. Plus T/A and gain?
If that is the case, you and I are now best friends..lol
If I built a 5way speaker pair I would need 10 channels, add in subwoofer make that 11 or 12 for a stereo pair.
3 way LCR + sub
15-16 channels needed
Do you need more examples? I think that should suffice to explain a want or need for > 8 channels.
You can treat unbalance like balanced. It's only potential difference. I'm not even sure you need a split supply, some opamps work off single supply no? Maybe I'm wrong, you have more experience than I do in designing electronics. If could be done it would be great, then signal ground and power ground would be isolated from each other and less complaints come back to you.
Building a differential amplifier : OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIERS
http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/sloa072/sloa072.pdf
http://www.eng.yale.edu/ee-labs/morse/compo/sloa058.pdf
Bummer. I guess we would have to suggest plugins to you in hopes you have the time and demand for them. Do you have a suggestions section on your website or here to keep them all in one spot?
My fault for not double checking the specs. I saw a screen shot of the software showing a range of 0-10ms.http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-4way Xover PEQ plug-in.pdf
Last edited:
technically:
* these devices are SMD mounted
if you take in components on sockets, you will lose audio quality.
(already proven many years ago, with PSpice simulation and real life measurents)
* each type of DAC chip needs it's own surrounding parts, not easy interchangeable
same as above, not a sonic improvement, sine you will fiddle around with non-SMD
* maybe my best argument - the already achieved result!
I have listened to some multi thousand $ DACs and now we have a DIY gear which is able to beat them easily.
Not only in price, but in listening experience!
Music is naturally fluid, real life sounding, has deep, stable imaging. It's all there.
You can focus your thoughts on enjoying your music, no need to "improve" this and that...
I tried to put this into words, which cannot reflect the real experience.
my listening experience is supported by very good amps and horn speakers (they show you every detail of what is coming to them)
my statement is in no way an advertisement for miniDSP.
It has to be stated that it is at a "State-Of-Art" Level. Point.
Trusound, have a quick look at the plug-ins audio flow diagrams on our website. You'll see that we unfortunately don't have 31 bands AND 6 PEQ on outputs. It's either configuration depending if you are taking 2way or 2way PEQ plug-in.
It's all about DSP requirements, 31bands are great visually, but utilize a lot of resources that may not be used. You can achieve a graphic EQ just as well with a PEQ I guess, just lock the q to a static value. Hope this makes sense.
I'm not sure of your electronic knowledge, but if you were looking at a couple of datasheets, you'd realize that this idea isn't possible because each IC has a different pin-out, and most of them requires to be configured/initialized by a microcontroller to work. These 2 steps combined make it impossible to have a one for all socket. If you want to use your own ADC/DAC, that's why we have I2S on the expansion socket. Go at it and connect whatever IC you want, providing you follow the I2S requirements we explained in our tech note. Hope this makes sense.
If I built a 5way speaker pair I would need 10 channels, add in subwoofer make that 11 or 12 for a stereo pair.
3 way LCR + sub
15-16 channels needed
Do you need more examples? I think that should suffice to explain a want or need for > 8 channels.
Starting with your 5way loudspeaker, you'll run into the limitation of needing 3 boards for that requirement:
- 2 x configured in 4 way plug-in
- 1xconfigured in stereo 2way. All together that would give you the 12ch you need.
Providing you link the I2S data line + clocks from 1 miniDSP (configured as I2S master) to the other 2 miniDSP (configured as I2S slaves by software configuration) you could indeed in theory do it.
The remaining examples with 13/15 channels will however become a bit more complex because you're once again limited with the number of channels out of a miniDSP (4ch) vs what you're trying to achieve for each speaker (5ch).
You can treat unbalance like balanced. It's only potential difference. I'm not even sure you need a split supply, some opamps work off single supply no? Maybe I'm wrong, you have more experience than I do in designing electronics. If could be done it would be great, then signal ground and power ground would be isolated from each other and less complaints come back to you.
Building a differential amplifier : OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIERS
http://focus.ti.com.cn/cn/lit/an/sloa072/sloa072.pdf
http://www.eng.yale.edu/ee-labs/morse/compo/sloa058.pdf
Yes we're aware of that, what we call "forward referencing" is what you call "treat un-balanced like balanced". Just different terminology and we indeed know that you can use op amps off a single supply. (not our first day building a board.. ;-) We already did a bit of homework on this issue, and when you combine on one hand end users that a) want higher input capabilities b) end users that want a balanced input c)End users that want a self powered USB device (5V) and don't want to have a use a split rail supply (the only way this would work well) d) and us who try to limit the switching devices (power regulators) on this tiny board to make sure we don't compromise sound quality, it's simply impossible to make everybody happy. Once again, we're sidetracking from the concept. miniDSP board is NOT intended to be a one for all I/O card. If you want digital audio (which a lot of people don't want to pay for), then just purchase a Digital I/O card. If you want balanced input (which a lot of people don't want to pay for once again), then get a balanced input card. That's the way we see this working.
The day we release the balanced I/O cards, we will get the opportunity to please what I highlighted as a/b/c/d facts under one I/O card.
You can always email us ideas, whether it will get implemented depends on whether it's technically feasible and whether our community members (current miniDSP owners) also see value into it. To be honest, while we're an open minded company staffing multiple forums and listening to the community, we also try our best to please our community members first, since they are the people who believed in us and make this story happen.
Thanks will update that pic. It's indeed confusing.
http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product Brief-4way Xover PEQ plug-in.pdf
Hi,
I want to replace my existing DCX2496 with miniDsp.
What are the DSP kit that I need to purchase?
Data source will be CD or USB.
Output 6 Channels (I2S), I want to use my own DACs (WM8741) which can accept I2S input.
How many miniDSP and miniDigi kits as well software Pulgin I need?
Gary
I want to replace my existing DCX2496 with miniDsp.
What are the DSP kit that I need to purchase?
Data source will be CD or USB.
Output 6 Channels (I2S), I want to use my own DACs (WM8741) which can accept I2S input.
How many miniDSP and miniDigi kits as well software Pulgin I need?
Gary
Gary,
Please make sure to realize that the USB port is for control only and not for streaming audio (In&Out of a PC). With this being said, for your setup to work, the required elements will depend if you want your miniDSP inside your speakers (along with your amps) or remote.
If in remote configuration, you will need:
- 2 x miniDSP kits, 1 configured as Master I2S, the other configured as Slave I2S
- 1 x miniDIGI for SPDIF/Toslink input
- 1 x 4 way plug-in
- And most important, for you to clearly understand how I2S works since you are planning a custom setup (with your own DACS) In other words, it means that we'd expect you to have understanding of electronics and how it works. There are so many DACs, configuration settings specific to the I2S signals (different clock rates) that it's impossible for us to support each custom project, so be warned that if you DIY electronic, you'll be on your own (with maybe support of other miniDSP community members). Having a look at the I2S tech notes on our website with this regards would be the first step I'd recommend to make sure you have an understanding that I2S isn't plug&play, like analog audio is.
Hope this information makes sense.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.