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Old 1st March 2014, 09:18 PM   #11
Tom V is offline Tom V  United States
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>I also must admit , I'm a sucker for the grilles on my beloved 2 mint pairs of Victor SX500's - see pic.

Me too! Those look great!
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Old 1st March 2014, 09:50 PM   #12
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Squeak, Lorien, PK, guys,
Thanks for your posts, hope more will follow. Early replies suggest its positive for this frame.

I'm sort of a bit nervous about how the majority might receive a thin poly frame. Its no drama in Japan as they've taken well to the frames we make. The culture towards polycarbonate materials in Japan and Asia generally is its "modern" and "up to date" etc. For Western culture, there's still a "love thing" happening for heavy metal. Or am I being too pessimistic?

Re the covers/grilles, I don't recollect saying "no", as such, but suggesting its a question of commercial viability. I'm not certain there would be enough sales to pay for tooling-up, mould(s), pressing and/or forming, then making-up and packaging grilles. I did make acrylic covers many years back, quite stylish with magnets attaching to the screw heads, worked well. But the never took off. I had to dump quite a lot of stock when I moved my HK warehouse some 5 years ago.

I'll have another think on the grilles....................

PS..Lorien.......fab work on the twin Alp7 monitor. Well done!

Cheers
Mark.
I'm quite certain that you'd have no trouble selling more than enough of these to warrant that expenditure.

I know doing a plastic mold, designing and testing is expensive, but you'd have something no other FR driver maker has (apart from Fostex whose effort leaves a lot to be desired).

You could do something real simple with a plastic frame, 4 magnets and some light see-through fabric wrapped around the edge. Like this:
Click the image to open in full size.

You could even offer it in different colors like in the picture but maybe more tasteful. Of course that would be more expensive, but also allow the user to customize the aesthetics.

Fabric would be the most acoustically transparent, but a metal grille is of course harder.
The SX-500 grilles look good with the edge meeting the cab in a smooth curve with the grille. But maybe a bit heavy for magnets only?

The acrylic covers were probably not a success for the exact reason that they were covers, not grilles. It's simply too much bother to handle the covers and find somewhere to put them every time you want to listen to music.
If you live with children and even most adults, who have not paid for the drivers and haven't but love and care into the construction of the speaker, grilles of some kind is an absolute must. It is nice to have the option to remove them though.
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Old 1st March 2014, 10:03 PM   #13
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Just a personal fetish I guess, but I prefer "grilles" to be part of the aesthetic of the enclosure rather than the driver - and to my thinking the former method can allow for less acoustic interference than the latter. I keep on harking back to the frameless "socks" that Linn used on Kaber and Khelidh of the 90's (always was a sucker for elastic "stay-ups")

anyways, thanks Mark as always for sharing and soliciting feedback -
If find a large square or rectangular grilles looks ridiculous (and kind of like multiway "driver envy") with a single FR driver. Also the square/rectangular grille look is way overdone and passť and doesn't provide a lot of protection, because it's easier to push such large "trampoline" of fabric in than a smaller.

And anyway it's still not easy to do a good-looking square frame grille, as opposed to just buying one that is made with care and fits perfectly.

I know this is a DIY forum. But that is one of the things I'd like the option of buying.

Last edited by Squeak; 1st March 2014 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 1st March 2014, 11:03 PM   #14
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Grills are still the one thorn in our side element of our designs also, a nice round fitted one would be so nice.
Also on the topic of flush mounting the frames, not having them at standard measurements (1/8",1/16" etc) complicates things when using a store bought circle jig
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Old 2nd March 2014, 12:27 PM   #15
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I normally prefer recessed drivers, but being a newbie, cutting the rebate can be a hard work at times... The proposed shallower facer is a good idea and would make speaker fitment more straight forward and surface mount more appealing. Plus, if a light rigid polymer frame does the job, great

Grills... I don't have children so don't need them. Any speakers were always in bigger danger of being knocked over by my mum, less so nowadays... If I did go the grill route, it'd need to fit the aesthetics of the enclosure. So custom made over generic in my view.

Paul
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Old 2nd March 2014, 12:33 PM   #16
McDark is offline McDark  Russian Federation
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I'd say if driver itself fits the aesthetics of the enclosure why grilles designed by same people could not?
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Old 2nd March 2014, 07:12 PM   #17
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If what's being suggested is along the lines of the grills shown fitted to the SX-500's, then yes a universal design along those lines would probably work out well. How would they be supplied though? An optional extra, or bundled with the driver?
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Old 2nd March 2014, 07:18 PM   #18
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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All fair enough- for me grilles are essential for WAF - for more than 25yrs before I stepped off the merry-go-round of upgrade-itis, she had to put up with some ungainly, obtrusive and not safe for kids systems. If she doesn't want to stare at ugly speaker enclosures or naked cones, it's the least I can do to accede to that.

After all, she's gotta look at my face over the dining table twice every day, and there's only so much a person should be expected to tolerate.

Agreed that light fabric covers provide little in the way of physical protection, but that's not the purpose in my case - they just serve to hide the drivers.
Thin MDF framed grilles might not be to everyone's taste, but they're easy to customize, and the flip side of the aesthetic aspect is that some don't care too much for metal grilles. Personally, they remind me a bit too much of some car audio or institutional installations, and I wonder how much they might impede / interfere with the higher frequencies , but to each his/her own.

As to grilles by Mark (assuming here some type of expanded / perforated metal) - I'm sure he could come up with something tasty. My only concern would be that if designed to not interfere with the very wide dispersion pattern of his drivers, that in combination with the resin flanges that are already wider than many of the stamped or cast metal frames of comparable size drivers by other makers, the net size of the grilles could constrain the design of narrow width enclosures that some of us like to employ.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 10:58 PM   #19
Ivo is offline Ivo  Netherlands
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I would not be scared by a thin frame, considering it's a high tech driver designed by a driven professional. I would accept the choices the designer has made and be confident that it is engineered sufficiently to deliver as desired.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 11:16 PM   #20
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDark View Post
I'd say if driver itself fits the aesthetics of the enclosure why grilles designed by same people could not?
Exactly!
A big black or white rectangle of fabric and frame is hardly aesthetic. That's just playing it safe, being conformist and boring. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that though. ;-)
It's all about having the option.

A round light fabric cover can give more than able protection from accidental gracing touches or small prodding fingers whose owners are too small to know better.
With a small cover frame the fabric can be more taught.
The acoustic transparency is better than metal.
It's lighter which means magnets are possible and/or can be smaller.
Fabric grilles can be thinner and more flush with the surface.
:-) I vote fabric grilles.

Last edited by Squeak; 2nd March 2014 at 11:30 PM.
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