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Old 3rd March 2014, 06:14 PM   #31
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Fair enough - particularly if the system is used in the "multi-channel stereo" mode, which in the case of my Denon 5.1 rig means substantially higher SPL levels from the rears.

Are there actually 2 noticeably discrete (as in "stereo") LFE channels in 7.2?, or does the second serve some other purpose?

I gave up on trying to keep up with the latest hard media formats, and haven't played even a standard DVD in at least a couple of years, nor watched a Blu-ray, other than in demo showrooms. After 45yrs in this game, the only thing that's certain is that technology never stops and every media format - physical or virtual will be superceded. A quick google/Wikepedia search will return the current champ for surround as 22.2 - can you imagine how much fun that'd be to install / calibrate?




Any bets on how / when 4K will be surpassed at "affordable" prices?
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Old 3rd March 2014, 08:21 PM   #32
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To my understanding it is recorded as 7.1. When You use the sound management system it calibrates them seperatly on a true 7.2 receiver. This should help the subs dissapear.

I am hoping to have it sound like the bass is coming from the speakers and not the subs!

I knew about 11.2 and 22.2 but that is beyond my budget. It is also somewat pointless because at this point sound is not recorded like that (for the general consumer). With 4k, 8k, and up coming over the horizon that may change.

I am building this system as funds are availible and it seems like sound tecnology changes the least. That is why I am starting with sound first. I am hoping a led 4k projector will be on the market next year. I would like the sound system I build to be up to date for at least 10-15 years. I know the projector and screen will change much more rapidly. Have you seen this? Sony Global - Life Space UX | 4K Ultra Short Throw Projector
Way too rich for me....
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Old 3rd March 2014, 09:14 PM   #33
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What is a true 7.2 receiver?

It has two separate LFE channels? ...It equalizes two separate subwoofers just as it equalizes seven separate speaker channels?

What are the most discrete separate channels that are contained in a movie medium?
And what are the most discrete separate channels (non-derived) that we can have in our home theater rooms (total number of speakers and subwoofers).

Is it a good thing to have eleven speakers (Audyssey DSX and dts Neo:X) and four subwoofers (for good balance) in our amusement/entertainment rooms?

What is accurate movie surround sound reproduction, and what is not?

What is the very best movie surround sound experience? ...Like say from a flick like 'Gravity' with a DTS-HD MA 5.1 surround soundtrack.

How much faith should we allow in Auto Room Correction & EQ systems?

How important is to acoustically treat our rooms? ...For both movies and stereo music?

What is the difference in sound quality between movies (on Blu-rays) and music (on Blu-ray Audio, DVD-Audio, SACD, hi-res audio downloads, CDs, LPs, R-2-R tapes, and cassette tapes)?

How many speakers are best; two or three or four or five or six or seven or an infinity of them?

Can mirrors add sound reverberations in a room?
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Old 3rd March 2014, 10:27 PM   #34
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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how long is a piece of string?

do you have secret arcane knowledge as to the answers for any of the above questions?

To my thinking there's a big difference between whatever number of LFE channels - for impact and "envelopment", and what we might want to call "subs" in the sense of bottom end of music program. Now when an easy to use and affordable surround processor (whether in a receiver or separates ) will allow for bass management & bi-amping of 3 front row main channels as well as the prevailing number of LFE channels, and do so with seamless transparency and lack of artifacts, I might get excited. But as few of us can afford the 6 figures or more required for dedicated "ideal" systems, I won't flagellate myself over the short comings of what I have. That $150 - 200K can buy a lot of vegetables and Pinor Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot ... you get the picture.

It's been my experience that multiple smaller woofers is far more effective in dealing with room modes and uneven distribution than any digital EQ.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 11:08 PM   #35
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There is only one LFE channel, just as there is only one front center channel.

But some people can use two front center channel speakers and equalize them separately.
...Different speaker's positions requires different equalizations (below and above or flanking each side of the screen).

The same is valid with multiple subwoofers; two or more. ...For a better overall bass balance @ all listening positions (or close enough).

And some people use eight surround speakers. ...But only four are truly discrete recorded material by the mixing/recording movie sound engineers.

The most discrete we have right now is 7.1 (in our homes). Stuff like 9.2, 11.3, etc., is just to make life easier and fun to play with (audio people are like that).

This is a forum for mainly regular people with normal home theater rooms and living rooms.
If it would be for professional commercial IMAX and Cineplex Theaters then we can add a few more stuff in the room. ...Atmos, etc.

Sorry for the mirror-effect reflection/deflection.
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Last edited by NorthStar; 3rd March 2014 at 11:11 PM. Reason: plural
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Old 3rd March 2014, 11:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxximus View Post
I am looking to build a (dedicated) home theatre in a 16'x19' room with 8' ceilings. This room has a 13' opening at the rear into a slightly larger multipurpose room. I am going to use theatre curtains to separate the rooms.
Sounds like a fun project.

Quote:
I am planning on a 7.2 system. For the receiver I am looking at the Yamaha Aventage.
Why Yamaha?

Quote:
For subs I am looking at the Rythmik servo CI 15" sealed. I am hoping they will not always be needed.
How many of them?
And why are you saying that "I am hoping they will not always be needed."?

Quote:
I am looking to use a acoustically transparent screen with a projector. It will be at least a year until it is built so I haven't picked one out yet. That technology seems to change rapidly.
Yes, next year they'll be cheaper and better front projectors.
I like Sony in that category. ...But who knows next year.
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Old 4th March 2014, 01:02 AM   #37
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Wow..

My main reason for posting here was for the sound end of things.

Primarily I want to use the 10p speaker and I am trying to build a balanced system around this speaker. I am looking for a box that sounds and looks good.

I mentioned the receiver incase anyone knew of a better one for the price point.
Some 7.2 receivers simply use a splitter and do not calibrate the subs separately. That is what I meant by true.

The majority of the theatre stuff I can post in a different forum. I just wanted to give a quick overview of what I am doing.

So to recap I am looking at 7 10p speakers. When I am not watching movies (and just listening to music) I may want to turn off the 2 subs.
I am looking for good boxes to put the speakers in, thus my question about the mar-ken box.

I want to use the 15 inch subs because of an experience at a friends house with a 20 inch sub. sq was horrible but the impact was awesome. If the Rythmik subs blend with the 10p speakers the result should be awesome. If the room needs a third sub that can be added later on as I have stated.

I want to use a receiver for simplicity. Just one unit to turn on and off. The Rythmik subs have a auto on/off feature and the projector I pick will as well.

Last edited by maxximus; 4th March 2014 at 01:16 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 4th March 2014, 01:22 AM   #38
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1. Which model Yamaha receiver?
2. Does it equalize (parametric) the bass below 32Hz?
3. Two subs are better than one, and without two subs (or more) a home theater is not complete, IMHO.
4. Are you more into Blu-ray movies, multichannnel SACDs, or some' else?
5. For multichannel music best is five full range speakers (clean 20Hz).

I am posting here for the exact same reason as yours; the best surround sound experience.

* I like what Audyssey MultEQ XT32 does in my own room with my nine speakers and two subs. My system is very modest, and my speakers are all different.

Some people prefer ARC from Anthem, others MCACC from Pioneer, in tandem with REW, others they use a separate program like Dirac Live, or Acourate.
Modest receivers with XT32 (Audyssey) are from Onkyo/Integra, Marantz/Denon.

Low bass (sub EQ) is probably the most important acoustical aspect of any room with both music and movies. ...And bass content is available in some medium recordings @ 5 to 20Hz. ...Let's make that 10Hz. ...Or 15Hz to 20Hz.
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Old 4th March 2014, 02:23 AM   #39
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Sorry for sounding defensive. I didn't know where all that was coming from.

1. I am looking at the rx a730 or a830. they don't have hdmi2.0 this year, but I expect they will next year.
2. I don't know I should email them.
3. I understand.
4. Blu-ray for now. Soon it will be UHD on to a 120" screen :<)
5. If I flip to zone 2 I can always shut off the back to speakers.

I have read that it always sounds best with identical speakers. I am hoping to build a system that can't be bettered with out exponentially more cost.
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:17 AM   #40
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No sweat, you sound perfectly fine and friendly.
{I'm the one who jumped in unannounced, and with verve.}

And you are right; identical speakers all around is the very best, or @ least from the same manufacturer with identical drivers for timbre matching. Anyway you have that covered; I don't.

Personally I would use a system like Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which is in the Onkyo TX-NR818 AV receiver ($599-699) for example. It uses over 10,000 FIR filters (Frequency Response and Time Domain) and down to 10Hz (from 10Hz to 24kHz). ...Bass frequencies are the main emphasis.
It has two sub outputs but equalize them as one (summing up), which is fine.
* Do some research into that receiver; you might be interested. And it seems to be within your budget.

Yamaha doesn't equalize the bass below 32Hz, even in their flagship AV receivers; don't need to call them, just google to confirm my saying.

HDMI version 2.0 is just too new for now that I don't know any product yet to have it, unless some Sony 4K front projectors. ...And 4K content is very sparse and mainly from a Sony movie server.

For a Blu-ray player; Oppo BDP-105D ($1,200) or 103D ($600). If using the HDMI connections; 103D.

'Gravity 3D' should look awesome on a 120" screen.
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