Alpair 12P mini line array advice - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Manufacturers > Markaudio

Markaudio Designers and builders of audiophile grade drivers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th February 2014, 08:46 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Default Alpair 12P mini line array advice

Having heard the Aplair 12Ps in a friend's system I have bought myself a pair. These will go into some existing OB baffles with a couple of 15 inch dipole bass units to provide extra substance low down.

In the meantime I'm putting some hours on the drivers using a baffle from another OB.

Click the image to open in full size.

This got me thinking....which may be a bad thing....running in mono I tried one driver vs two drivers, trying to roughly match levels. Two drivers gave a bigger sound. I can't know how this would sound in stereo so my question is:

Would a small line array of two 12Ps be worth trying? I've seen plenty of Visaton B200s in arrays.

The two 12Ps would be in parallel as this is only about a 4R load. Should the 12Ps have their centres as close together as possible or should they be separated more in the manner of the temporary baffle above?

Or is this a lousy idea that kills the idea of using a great point source driver by producing two point sources?
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 09:14 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Two drivers do not a line array make.

They're too big. You can get away with using twin smaller units, but the output lobing from a couple of 6 1/2in drivers in 8in frames (which is what the A12 is) will be very obvious. You could low pass one of them to avoid these problems -bit of a waste IMO, but different strokes for different folks.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 04:14 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
+1 to Scott's comment, and yes to the last sentence in your first post

If you've heard a well executed true line array with which you've been impressed and would like to emulate, my money's on it being composed of a much higher number of smaller FR drivers (3-4" seems to be a popular size) . With all but the cheapest of drivers, that can get to be expensive and complicated, and doesn't always pass WAF test.

What enclosures were the 12ps mounted in in your friend's system? I've heard this driver in 2 enclosures, in the SuperPensils I don't find them lacking bottom end extension or weight at all - in a smaller stand mount vented enclosure they were deficient.
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 04:24 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
+1 to Scott's comment, and yes to the last sentence in your first post

If you've heard a well executed true line array with which you've been impressed and would like to emulate, my money's on it being composed of a much higher number of smaller FR drivers (3-4" seems to be a popular size) . With all but the cheapest of drivers, that can get to be expensive and complicated, and doesn't always pass WAF test.

What enclosures were the 12ps mounted in in your friend's system? I've heard this driver in 2 enclosures, in the SuperPensils I don't find them lacking bottom end extension or weight at all - in a smaller stand mount vented enclosure they were deficient.
It seems a twin 12P is not a great idea....I'm sticking with OBs as once you're hooked on OBs it's difficult to return to any speakers with a box.

Here's an example of a line array with 8 inch Visaton B200s, I've not heard them but given they were built by Paul Hynes I suspect they are good. People who've heard them like them.

Click the image to open in full size.

The 12Ps my friend has are OB with one 18 inch dipole bass driver per channel plumbing the depths. I only use a couple of 15 inchers per side with DSP, pretty much flat down to 18Hz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 05:12 PM   #5
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by clivetjm View Post
...I'm sticking with OBs as once you're hooked on OBs it's difficult to return to any speakers with a box.
Never got hooked on OBs. We have built a few good sounding ones, but something wasn't quite right.

Alpair 6.2p would be a much better choice. Still the big Bezel compromises the arrary. And you need toat least approximate floor to ceiling.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 05:28 PM   #6
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
I've certainly heard more than enough OBs and a couple of line arrays that for various reasons (from horrid sound to form factor and total system cost) I could certainly live without

there's no perfect driver or configuration thereof, and some that some folks just don't get hooked on - but live and let live
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 06:13 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
I really, really wouldn't do an array with 8in widebanders. It's difficult enough with 3 1/2in drivers & Eq is mandatory.

That said, the B200 has a rapidly narrowing polar response as frequency increases (a polite way of saying it beams something chronic) so with the limited HF dispersion, it might be marginally less susceptible to HF lobing & the apparent attendant HF losses (it's not a loss per se in technical terms, but that's the effect) than some others of similar size. As in 'might.' And 'marginally.' Eq will almost certainly still be needed, and some power-tapering likely wouldn't go amiss. The A12P, which has very broad HF dispersion for a relatively large widebander will almost certainly have even more problems.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2014, 06:46 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Thanks for the views guys. I get the message why twined 12Ps aren't a good idea technically. I'm not bothered about the anti-OB sentiments as no speaker is perfect and we all have our own preferences. I happen to get on very well with OBs.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alpair 12P quicky mikealanlee Markaudio 2 24th March 2013 04:13 PM
Alpair 12P arrival! Monte Verdi Full Range 4 24th June 2012 08:17 PM
PA Line Array Advice Omeone Full Range 2 20th May 2010 05:05 AM
fostex based mini line array MPM Full Range 11 4th November 2009 11:06 PM
Line Array BR and/or TL advice please mpmarino Multi-Way 3 13th August 2004 06:14 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2