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Old 6th February 2014, 09:31 PM   #11
Xiro is offline Xiro  Sweden
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Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Johan - when you say "computer as source" what degree of control / EQ / XO filtering would your player software offer, and would you be using analog or digital output?

There's mixed blessings to be found in current DSP devices/sofware - many members here are quite happy with the functionality of mini- or nano-DSP etc.

My own experience in this realm has been mostly been with HT surround receivers, which offer a lot of flexibility in DSP with a mostly user friendly interface. I 'm trying to talk myself into trying something like the nanoDSP, but have spent more than 10yrs attempting to simplify and streamline the number of "black boxes" - old habits die hard

I share some of cogitech's experience / exasperation in finding decent "subs" to integrate seamlessly with small FR drivers, but to saddle up one of my favorite hobby horses, I think a big problem is the design/ marketing of commercial products to cater to the "sub" mentality -i.e. if you can't hear / feel it as a distinct source, and if it can't rattle the neighbour's china cabinet, or interrupt peristalsis, it's not a real sub- (OK, maybe that's hyperbole)

I've been to only a couple of recent cinema releases, and the last thing I want from any home system is to recreate that sensory overload.


I've found that multiples of smaller mid-bass drivers without nasty upper register response, in enclosures aligned for shallow low-end rolloff, and taking advantage of room gain can work very well, and blend quite nicely. And, FWIW, I've moved away from using internal "plate" amps for woofers.

To the question, I'd suggest dual woofers (6-8"), crossed over as high as 120 or so, and definitely HP the CHRs - actively if possible, by either passive line level or something like nanoDSP. I'd also be inclined to bypass the internal line level XO of sub amp for greater flexibility of filter points and slopes.
Thanks Chris,

I normally use Foobar2000 and XBMC for music. If possible together with software crossover I'd use a USB DAC for the CHR 70. And to start with I'd try with computer analog out for the subwoofer. I've just discovered a Foobar plugin for crossover, but I have to learn more about it to know if it would be suitable for me in my system.

I recognize the desire for less boxes. Boxes do not enter my house if they do not have a very good reason to. I could make an exception for beatiful boxes, like a tube amp, or some champagne monoblocks with wooden sides - but I'm still waiting for them to appear one sunny day

I also dislike cinema front row sensory overload. I'm not after super SPL, just a deep and natural bass extension, and some more overload headroom. I'm addicted to double bass and I'm very happy (and surprised) with how well it is handled by CHR 70. And in that I mean regardless of CHR 70 size or price. My addiction just makes me a bit worried about excessive cone excursion.

You mention nano DSP, I'll have a look at that.

It would be so cool with an acoustically lowpassed subwoofer with twin 8", to match the simplicity of my CHR 70 cabs. They seem to fall off upwards nicely at around 18 dB/oct. But I've read they have a bad transient response.

Now I'll have some sleep.

Best regards /Johan

Last edited by Xiro; 6th February 2014 at 09:32 PM. Reason: minor adj of language
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Old 6th February 2014, 10:22 PM   #12
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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A short digression - for standup double bass (Stanley Clark, Christian McBride, Michael Arnopol, Chris Wood, insert your favorite player name here ______) , or cello, the 10P should be on your short list. In the FHXL they don't embarrass themselves at all. ,
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Old 7th February 2014, 01:30 AM   #13
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remind me again Bob, what "real" subs are you using
This one.

Bob
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Old 7th February 2014, 07:16 AM   #14
JoeyGS is offline JoeyGS  Philippines
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For a good and fast sub to integrate with the CHR-70a, I would recommend Ryhtmik Audio Servo Subs. Preferably the sealed types for audio application and ported for HT.

Servo subwoofers •Rythmik Audio Direct Servo subwoofers

There are DIY kits to save on costs. You can make the boxes yourself.
We have used this and they can blend easily with fast main drivers.
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Old 7th February 2014, 03:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
A short digression - for standup double bass (Stanley Clark, Christian McBride, Michael Arnopol, Chris Wood, insert your favorite player name here ______) , or cello, the 10P should be on your short list. In the FHXL they don't embarrass themselves at all. ,
Agreed. I first noticed the superiority of the 10P with wind instruments, but as I get more hours on them, I realize that the inner details of all kinds of instruments (and voices) are just so much more obvious with the 10P. Even something as simple as the tap-tap of a wood block in Dire Straits "Water of Love" takes on a whole new life. With other drivers the sound is there, but with the 10P it sounds like wood. I don't know how else to explain it. Wind instruments sound windy. Brass sounds like brass. Steel sounds like steel.
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Old 7th February 2014, 04:01 PM   #16
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Back to the subject, though. I did not pull the trigger on the miniDSP. I decided that the nanoDIGI is really what I should get. However I remain unconvinced that it is worth $170USD.

My plan is to wait till I build the new towers and then re-evaluate.

Johan, good luck on your search for a solution. You have a lot of options and only you can decide which will fit your criteria.
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Old 9th February 2014, 09:39 PM   #17
Xiro is offline Xiro  Sweden
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I am just starting to play with the nanoDIGI. It is a 2 x 8 SPDIF in SPDIF out solution. You will need 2-4 DAC's and 2-4 stereo amps. You get the choice of two plug-ins, 24/48 or 24/96. The 24/48 has an input PEQ plus an output PEQ for each channel. The 24/96 does not have the input PEQ. I am not sure the all digital sounds better than the miniDSP, but I feel better about it.

I am using a real subwoofer, not a low mid woof. As such, the best thing I did was upgrade the sub amp. An A10P high passed at 200Hz is crazy loud with 30w/ch. with 75w/ch on the subs, they could not keep up. Now I have 575w/ch on them and all is well, although I had to ack them down a few dB in the nanoDIGI

Bob
Thanks Bob,

If I can't find a more simple way I'll seriously consider the nano. Any idea on how high SPL you can reach with those highpassed A10P of yours?

BR /Johan
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Old 9th February 2014, 10:12 PM   #18
Xiro is offline Xiro  Sweden
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In my large room (where I feel the lows are a bit thin) I have been using my Yamaha CD-player. Yesterday I played that setup with my laptop (Acer Aspire V3-571G, analog out) and the lows got more meat. Funny, I didn't expect my laptop to be better than my dedicated CD-player. Soon I'll borrow a USB DAC ("DAC Destroyer") from a friend.

But I'm still contemplating the best way to Xover to a subwoofer. I have decided I want a system that digs really deep, to feel all undertones - so I can decide for my self if that is really important or not. But without monster SPL - I want to keep size and budget reasonable. And I want to keep the mains point source - so I'll stick with single CHR 70 config for now.

Which cabinets are good for CHR 70 crossed over to subwoofer at around 80 Hz? Ported or closed, volume? Would a small closed box provide any protection against over excursion? Would such a box give good sound? (My current cabinets are just rough prototypes, I will make other boxes anyway, to have them looking nice at least.)

I'm considering XO at 80 Hz to have fair flexibility on subwoofer placement.

BR /Johan
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Old 10th February 2014, 12:29 AM   #19
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Thanks Bob,

Any idea on how high SPL you can reach with those highpassed A10P of yours?

BR /Johan
Modeling suggests 105dB @ 30w. I'll never push them that hard. Note that Mark says the he rates his drivers as music power, not RMS. Of course, you won't be playing sine wave. In my 16l BR, the model stays below 5mm excursion all the way down to 40Hz @ 30w.

Bob
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Old 13th February 2014, 08:31 AM   #20
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I use the nano Digi and it rocks. I also have built a twin A7 monitor, curtesy of Scott. A cap 60-70uf across the lower driver solved all imaging issues and a low shelf with 3db gain rolling off 100hz-200hz transformed the sound quality, imaging, soundstage, the works. And although I have spare amps and DACs I have not needed to EQ the drivers separately, so just use my best DAC and amp.
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