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Old 15th January 2014, 01:55 AM   #1
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Default New Woofs for 2014

Hi Guys,
Picking up from previous threads, I'm about to start design work on 3 woofs for a 2 Pro-audio companies that have commissioned me.

This may afford the opportunity to tandem design drivers for member and diy end users.

So...... We need to make a "wish list". Staring with:

1 - Size: What frame sizes would you like?

2 - Cone type: Paper is the most likely candidate, other suggestions are welcome.

3 - Power handling: What are you looking for? Please be realistic. As you all know, I'm not into producing power piston monsters, plenty of those already on the market.

4 - Frequency range. What would you like?

5 - Frame design and material: I'm likely to use a form of die-cast Alloy for the pro-guys.

6 - Parameters: What are your performance priorities?

7 - Anything else?

Please reply using my numbering, so I can get a handle on this project.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 15th January 2014 at 01:57 AM. Reason: typo fixes
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Old 15th January 2014, 02:20 PM   #2
yorga is offline yorga  Canada
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1. size:15"
2.cône type: paper
3.power: 100 w.
4.frequ.: 28-1000
5.die-cast
6.low mass cone
7. Qts suitable fort multiple options (around .5 or .6?)
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Old 15th January 2014, 03:22 PM   #3
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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From my experience, I say that a woofer dedicated for FAST implementations is something direly needed, especially after hearing the results of a mediocre FAST implementation.
So here goes:

1 - Size: 6 to 8 inches (Smaller being better as one could always add woofers in case of higher SPL demands)

2 - Cone type: Paper

3 - Power handling: 60-80W is more than enough

4 - Frequency range: 30hz to 1.5khz

5 - Frame design and material: anything would do

6 - Parameters:
a- Fs: below 40
b- Xmax: more than 5mm
c- Spl: 88db
d- Re: 4 ohms
e- Qms: high
f- Qts: 0.4-0.7 (versatile for both closed and sealed enclosures)
g- Vas: low-ish (for smaller FAST enclosures)

7 - Anything else?: Yes, please make them happen quick
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Old 15th January 2014, 03:25 PM   #4
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Hi Mark,

I'd be interested to see what your take on the classic 12"+compression driver combo would be. If this doesn't prove popular, fair enough, but I think the option of DIYing a pair of high-quality speakers that can stand in as PA speakers would be cool. Something that'll suit an econowave or similar perhaps?

1 - 12"
2 - paper, unless you think something else might be better
3 - 1-200w, but be able to stand reasonable mechanical travel (ie, when driven past Xmax, overload gracefully as the Fostex FE drivers do)
4 - 70Hz - 2kHz
5 - probably die-cast, but not essential. Fairly minimal to avoid reflections back through the cone.
6 - efficient, so that a pair will keep up with a drum kit with a suitable amplifier, 4ohm (to make best use of most solid state amps).
7 - thanks for reading

Chris

PS - is coaxial an option here?
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Old 15th January 2014, 04:00 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Gee Santa, can I get 20" rims on my stretched and lowered Smart4U?

"well little Jimmy, that wouldn't really be too practical now, would it? (besides, the real trick stuff never leaves the BatCave )"

I pretty much echo Hajj above, except for - possibly dual 6ohm voice coils?

chris661 - I'd tick coax off the list -

I'm not saying it can't be done ( .eg. Tannoy Dual Concentrics, and others) but two of the least musical / coherent DIY systems I've heard in the past 15yrs were based on larger diameter woofers (10-15") with either concentric compression horn or suspended small dome tweeters.

Mark engineers excellent wide band drivers, and the budget Woofer6/EL166 of several years ago was, how did I put it at the time?, "a stoopedly good bargain", or something like that. No need to get sidetracked on a product with a likely very long R&D process to get as right as what he's already doing? Or I could be wrong.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:51 AM   #6
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Put me down for a larger woof -- 10"-12" class. Something that will move some air down low. Max usable freq needs be no higher that 500Hz or so. With that in mind, a metal cone might be easier to works with since it will be rolled out way before break-up. If designed with specs for a ported box, it could go lower with less power.

I can see that you are going to get two separate sets of requirements. One for a 6-8" driver that will take the bottom octave or so of the wide-range driver, but not extend the speaker range a lot. The second will be an honest-to-god sub that will extend the speakers range another octave.

Piggy-backing on a pro driver? Hmmmm. That would be large, efficient, but not a sub, wouldn't it?

Bob
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Old 16th January 2014, 02:28 AM   #7
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Some folk might like to be able to match sensitivity of the woofer with the 'full range' above it, say with an Alpair 7. Aiming for something that will pair well, tonally, with the A7 might make it a popular 'kit'.
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Old 16th January 2014, 07:09 AM   #8
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
I can see that you are going to get two separate sets of requirements. One for a 6-8" driver that will take the bottom octave or so of the wide-range driver, but not extend the speaker range a lot. The second will be an honest-to-god sub that will extend the speakers range another octave.

Piggy-backing on a pro driver? Hmmmm. That would be large, efficient, but not a sub, wouldn't it?

Bob
I agree with the fact that a pro driver platform might not be the most optimal choice for us.

But what I don't understand, is why you consider that a 6-8" driver can't also dig low enough to extend the speakers range.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:08 PM   #9
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Hey Mark,

Glad to see this thread rolling.

1) 6-8". I personally see this woofer being popular with the fast guys and gals. The option of having a smaller bass driver for a smaller fast build is nice and being able to simply "stack" more drivers for a larger system is always an option.

2) Not picky. Paper, metal, poly, composite.. as long as it performs well.

3) 50-90 watts should be plenty. Sensitivity plays into this of course.

4) Extension into the 30's would be nice. Usable to 500-800 hz.

5) I think a clean cosmetic look, whatever the material, is important. Something that pairs well with your other drivers, (as thats where a lot of these will likely end up) would be preferred.

6) A healthy, but not necessarily outlandish amount of excursion to act as a safety net if power gets out of hand, or alternately using the Arrestor system could be work. A low SD, resonant sensitive cone. I think quality over quantity is the key here.

7) Turning out something similar to the EL166 wouldn't be a bad thing. With the Alpair series cosmetics.

Last edited by Robertburchell; 16th January 2014 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 16th January 2014, 01:28 PM   #10
esgigt is offline esgigt  Netherlands
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Hi Mark!

Thanks for asking our preferences.

As far as I'm concerned:
Sizes: 6" to 8" woofers are ideal in most domestic applications. If further extension is needed, 12" low Fres woofers come into view.
Cone type: for smaller woofers paper (impregnated?) looks a very good choice to me.
Power handling: 50 - 80 Watts RMS with peak capability to 150+ Watts
Frequency range: 35Hz - 2.5Khz for 6"and 8" woofers. 20Hz to 800Hz for 12".
Frame: heavy diecast frame, streamlined to avoid noise.
Parameters: ought to perform best in CB or Vented. Fres 35 - 45Hz.
Anything else: a well organized demonstration of the products, this side of the Atlantic
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