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Old 16th January 2014, 02:49 PM   #11
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I am in the infancy stages of working on a OE branded speaker built around your Alpair line for the American market... getting a woofer "nailed down" has been my last hurdle. A Mark Audio woofer is certainly a welcome addition to your already exceptional line-up of drivers. I was super excited to see this thread and can offer any assistance you may need.

On the "simple" side of things I'd strongly suggest both a paper and metal coned woofer to help "voice match" your current full range offerings. Identical voicecoil winding material would be preferred, perhaps not geometry or thickness though due to the nature of motoring a woofer.

A "universal" driver would be nice to use in a 2-way with a tweeter, but I think most folks wanting to buy your woofers would want to use them with your current full range offerings. Although, I could be wrong .

Something with a controlled roll-off past 500 Hz for a FAST system as Mr. Brines suggested would almost entirely eliminate the need for a choke to limit HF. This would also aid in a dual loaded configuration with your current full range designs to reduce IMD. Please reference this thread for an idea of what I am referring to.

http://community.fortunecity.ws/rive...d/dddllqd.html

It's something I've implemented with great success with many other full range drivers in a large cabinet. A small ported bookshelf-type cabinet for just a Alpair FR with a sealed cabinet for the woofer in its own cabinet perhaps to be used as a stand for the bookshelf, is something that really intrigues me.

This could all but eliminate the need for a subwoofer for 2 channel listening if done correctly and could have huge market potential to the high end market here in the states from my preliminary research.

I will pull up some of the specs I was working on for a 2-way FAST system built around your Alpair 7. The woofer will need to "compete" with your Alpair's and need fast motoring, and a stiff yet low resonance material. I am not certain whether or not your current thickness/composites used in the Alpair's would be a good match as they are quite thin and not as well damped as some of the best woofers which offer full extension.

I'd concur with hajj's preliminary parameter set, esp. the Q rating.
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Old 16th January 2014, 03:05 PM   #12
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I am with Bob, 10-12", but I would like 40-2K+ for upper range. Oh yeah, 93dB sensitivity. JBL killer is what I am thinking. You asked.
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Old 16th January 2014, 04:11 PM   #13
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I'm not sure if this even makes any sense, but how about a woofer that could be matched to other Mark Audio full rangers without the need for a crossover? (if someone wanted to go in that direction.)
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Old 16th January 2014, 04:21 PM   #14
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Who's to say this will only be limited to one model of woofer? - witness the ever expanding "Full Range" Alpair lineup itself. To hope for a universal design is rather magic thinking,

I've used multiples of the EL166 (as has Colin in England) - and would certainly be pleased to have a choice like that available again. If with upscale cosmetics and extended performance at higher cost - well, dare I now say it? - the EL166 was perhaps under priced?

It's been my experience with several recently completed systems that the combination of a competent wideband and multiples of smaller diameter mid-woofers with reasonable excursion capacity can perform very well, and offer tremendous advantages in terms of design/configuration flexibility.

As to the matter of sensitivity, I think that's as much a question as to where/ how the woofers would be crossed over. For those gravitating towards active FAST types with XO below 300Hz, or for use in surround systems with full DSP for EQ, level matching, etc and separate LFE amp channel(s), I'd opine that sensitivity would not be as critical a factor as in the case of "conventional" multi-ways utilizing high level passive filter networks.

ergo the need for more than one woofer? - perhaps, but in the 12" and larger class there are already numerous manufacturers of a wide range of candidates, and frankly I'd be happier to see Mark focus his resources on what he does best.
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Old 16th January 2014, 04:40 PM   #15
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophil View Post
I'm not sure if this even makes any sense, but how about a woofer that could be matched to other Mark Audio full rangers without the need for a crossover? (if someone wanted to go in that direction.)

I wonder that if as the Alpair / MA drivers most commonly used (70mm and above, I'm guessing) have pretty fair low frequency performance (well under 100), that a woofer with smooth high end extension and rolloff -say in the 2-3K range as some have postulated - would tend towards either overbloated upper mid-bass/ mid range (if both drivers were unfiltered), or exactly the XO implementation that many of us have been steering away from - HP in the middle of the telephone band - not necessarily easy to get absolutely musical, transparent and seamless with low parts count.


I think that's fine when using a small dome or cone tweeter that's only comfortable above 1500 (which I've done) , but when we're talking Mark's wide-banders, that'd be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

or it's just my "less (in the right place) is more" philosophy?

Thanks, Mark for this opportunity - I think we'll find much more discussed than just a features wish list - let's keep it civil.
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Old 16th January 2014, 06:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophil View Post
but how about a woofer that could be matched to other Mark Audio full rangers without the need for a crossover?
XO point depends on many things including box design, choice of mid-tweeter, and how loud one wants to play. So fixing an XO frequency at the factory would be very limiting.

dave
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Old 16th January 2014, 06:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
XO point depends on many things including box design, choice of mid-tweeter, and how loud one wants to play. So fixing an XO frequency at the factory would be very limiting.

dave
But even if a woofer was designed to be crossoverless for a certain 'standard' box, couldn't others then just utilize a crossover for any alternative designs (or am I missing something here)? This would at least give those people who would like to build a crossoverless design to have that option.

Just a thought.
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Old 16th January 2014, 07:11 PM   #18
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philosophil View Post
But even if a woofer was designed to be crossoverless for a certain 'standard' box, couldn't others then just utilize a crossover for any alternative designs (or am I missing something here)? This would at least give those people who would like to build a crossoverless design to have that option.

Just a thought.
This would then mean that the driver can be used without XO in a very limited freq range, and that freq range would have to be quite high if others want to have the option to XO lower, which then defeats the purpose of a XOless driver

Last edited by hajj; 16th January 2014 at 07:26 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 16th January 2014, 07:16 PM   #19
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I guess, but that auto XO would need to be high. I like the respinse of the helper wooger to ve fairly extended.

For example, FASTs we have done so far use SDX7 (modded -- 1.5k), EL166 (4k), W14 (5k), 830870 (<5k)

dave
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Old 16th January 2014, 07:19 PM   #20
Quard is offline Quard  United States
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something that would work well in small sealed cab
for pairing up biamped with OB Alpair 12p?

enough power handling and xmax
so that woofer amp gain + linkwitz transform can provide baffle step compensation
if 1W/1M is <6db higher than Alpair 12p at 200 Hz or thereabouts?

just being a noob,
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