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Old 23rd January 2014, 05:58 PM   #101
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I think everybody will take that in the spirit intended.

Sadly, I'm back. A depressing thought. Anyway. Chucking my own views into the mix.

-EL166 back, preferably with a better frame. No, it wasn't perfect, but it punched way above its weight in terms of drivers of this type. Low HD levels, nice extended response sans large breakup modes & pretty linear. There aren't very many units out there like that.

-Midbass based on the 12P. Nominal 8ohm. Slightly lower Fs, reduced mechanical damping. Pitch for ~87dB - 88dB baseline sensitivity, either 1m/w or 1m/2.83v. Latter is usually more realistic. No response shaping, or only a mild LF lift. Response out to ~5KHz, smooth HF rolloff, 2nd order for preference or thereabouts, no HF peaking. Might need a slightly heavier cone if softening the mechanical damping doesn't sort that. Increase power-handling over the 12P as far as possible; 50w - 60w should be ample in practice. Probably a Q in the region of 0.4 & Vas around 30 - 40 litres would be flexible enough to cover what the majority of people would want from it.

-Woofer in the 12in region. While I'd like to see a 15 along the lines of Altec's 803B, realistically speaking I would imagine that might be excessive in resource terms, at least at present. So if a relatively large unit is wanted, 12in would probably be a good compromise, at least initially. Probably 1KHz - 1.5KHz HF extension, again with a gentle top-end rolloff / no large breakup modes would be preferred if practicable. Sensitivity at least 95dB 1m via whatever criteria is preferred. No response shaping. 8ohm nominal impedance. Relatively low mechanical damping. F0 in the region of 25Hz. Total Q of around 0.3, since assuming the driver more or less follows the bald mathematical T/S curve, it's the mass corner that counts, and a low Q is offset by low F0, while the extra motor power doesn't go amiss.

FWIW anyway.
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 23rd January 2014 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 06:08 PM   #102
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Now thats a list.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 06:32 PM   #103
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
I think everybody will take that in the spirit intended.

Sadly, I'm back
Was wondering how come you hadn't chimed in yet

A nice list hou've got there btw
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Old 23rd January 2014, 06:38 PM   #104
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yeah! Welcome back Scottmoose
I was waiting to read your list/comments.
Thank you.
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Old 23rd January 2014, 08:56 PM   #105
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I own a Lowther DX3, BetsyK and Alpair 7.
I have to say that Mark's products are amazing
In the very near future I'm buying a pair of Eminence 15 Beta for bass reinforcement or maybe an OB.
I would love to see a MarkAudio bass unit in the same league as Altec, Tannoy, the best of Eminence or Tone Tubby.
I don't quite get Bob's reply to my post. Anyone could further comment?
Cheers!
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Old 23rd January 2014, 09:24 PM   #106
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Yes, welcome back to the crazy sandbox Scott.
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Old 24th January 2014, 01:10 PM   #107
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Thanks guys.

Believe it or not, it's not all that much of a list in design terms. 8ohm nominal makes sense to me since it's the typical, & generally the most flexible for the largest number of people. A smooth HF rolloff sans peaking is fairly rare for midbass and / or woofer units at present for a variety of reasons, but assuming HD (especially high order) is low, it makes XO design a lot easier. The other aspects are pretty standard TBH, at least in terms of ensuring the unit is useful in a variety of ways people are likely to want. YMMV as ever of course, it's just my take.
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Old 24th January 2014, 04:56 PM   #108
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Looking at the last 107 posts, I see two drivers. One is a 6" class that will go down to 40Hz, or maybe mid 35's that would provide a bottom for acoustic music. The second is a 12" that will go down an other octave, at least in to the mid 20's. Beyond that, any reasonably designed woofer is going to be able to cross at or below 300Hz, IMO the max XO point for the full range sound.

Bob
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Old 24th January 2014, 07:59 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
Looking at the last 107 posts, I see two drivers. One is a 6" class that will go down to 40Hz, or maybe mid 35's that would provide a bottom for acoustic music. The second is a 12" that will go down an other octave, at least in to the mid 20's. Beyond that, any reasonably designed woofer is going to be able to cross at or below 300Hz, IMO the max XO point for the full range sound.

Bob
Looking at sSottmoose's suggestion and your summary, i'm tempted to say that what many are looking for a "super" EL166, with lower Fs (35hz or so), higher Qms, Slightly larger Sd and a better frame. All the while sticking to a diy friendly price tag.
Such a driver would more or less answer the first two drivers Scottmoose has mentioned.
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Old 24th January 2014, 08:25 PM   #110
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yup, I think something nominally similar to the Woofer6/EL166 could work with existing Alpair12 frame size, and would certainly make a lotta economic sense for the first in a small series of woofers - how large to go on possible subsequent models is the $64,000 question - or is it $640K, Mark?
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