hi folks
just a few Q's about the mark audio driver break in
1. what is actually happening during this 100 hours
2. what is LOW volume. here in NYC my ambient noise ranges between 57 - 62 db. is there a recommended DB
3. can the drivers do most of their break in, in free air or open baffle
thanks in advance
lance
just a few Q's about the mark audio driver break in
1. what is actually happening during this 100 hours
2. what is LOW volume. here in NYC my ambient noise ranges between 57 - 62 db. is there a recommended DB
3. can the drivers do most of their break in, in free air or open baffle
thanks in advance
lance
well, i can see that some of you chaps have read this post. so i begin to wonder if im just being ignored or if these questions are to silly to be asked. well if it is the latter please excuse my ignorance and someone just answer; because these are REAL questions to me
if your talking about speaker driver break in, the foam surround and the spider are stiff when new from sitting in the same position. I usually let new drivers play what is on the radio over night 1-3 watts.
My own experience, while the measurements were different none of them were so far that it would have changed my box design.
My own experience, while the measurements were different none of them were so far that it would have changed my box design.
Ignore Pallas, he is not the manufacturer, and has obviously not yet been in a situation where he has diectly heard the differences that break-in can cause.
When i break in MA drivers, i set them on the bench, face up, i use local FM, turning the volume up so that the cones can be felt to move, but not much (Mark has posted some actual numbers somewhere). I get a minimum of 100 hrs, and usually more like 3-400 hrs before pulling them off the bench. Even with that time on them, they need some real-world playing time before broken in.
dave
When i break in MA drivers, i set them on the bench, face up, i use local FM, turning the volume up so that the cones can be felt to move, but not much (Mark has posted some actual numbers somewhere). I get a minimum of 100 hrs, and usually more like 3-400 hrs before pulling them off the bench. Even with that time on them, they need some real-world playing time before broken in.
dave
The surrounds on the MA drivers are a rubber compound. The spiders are designed by one of the pre-eminent spider designers in the world, who has said that some of his designs require 1500 hrs to break-in.
In my experience, unless you use LEAP, Linear-X, or LMS (or maybe Woofer-Tester 2), you are usually best to start design with factory numbers.
dave
As it relates to another post just put up........
Has anybody bothered to Test for T/S parameters vs. Manufacturers specifications?, further, has anyone tested 'again' after the supposed break-in period to determine the changes in the parameters?
By simply saying it "sounds better" is kinda foolish........Why does it sound better............"measurement vs. perception" all over again , Huh?
62.5 days of playing? 24/7 ? That seems a lot of time. Common sense tells us that a surround and spider will change over time...more compliant? Yes, it is a logical thought.
___________________________________________________Rick..........
Has anybody bothered to Test for T/S parameters vs. Manufacturers specifications?, further, has anyone tested 'again' after the supposed break-in period to determine the changes in the parameters?
By simply saying it "sounds better" is kinda foolish........Why does it sound better............"measurement vs. perception" all over again , Huh?
62.5 days of playing? 24/7 ? That seems a lot of time. Common sense tells us that a surround and spider will change over time...more compliant? Yes, it is a logical thought.
___________________________________________________Rick..........
Yes.
This for example is data for the same FE127eN, measured by me with a typical computer based tool (Fuzzmeasure) and then measured by Mark (and the Fostex factory numbers for reference)
dave
Happy New Year Guys
Breaking-in Markaudio drivers (and pretty much any driver)is important. There's plenty of advice spread around on many threads/posts.
Member Pallas: Your post has been deleted, its incorrect comment which misleads other members so isn't acceptable on this section of Diyaudio.
Mark.
Breaking-in Markaudio drivers (and pretty much any driver)is important. There's plenty of advice spread around on many threads/posts.
Member Pallas: Your post has been deleted, its incorrect comment which misleads other members so isn't acceptable on this section of Diyaudio.
Mark.
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I tested my pair of Alpair 10P drivers both before and after a 100-hour break-in period with the Dayton Audio Test System. There is some question about the reliability of the values produced with this system, and I myself have noticed greatly variable results in Vas numbers using the added mass method, so I now use it only to get resonance and impedance values (for calculating crossovers). I find these values tend to be very similar to the factory numbers.
According to my DATS results, both drivers had a resonant frequency of 45.76 Hz before break-in and 46.43 Hz after. Factory number is 42.398 Hz.
DC resistance on Driver #1 was 6.24 ohms before break-in and 6.21 ohms after. Driver #2 had values of 6.40 ohms before break-in and 6.39 ohms after. Factory number is 6.200 ohms.
Qts on Driver #1 was .340 before break-in and .343 after. Driver #2 had values of .345 before break-in and .356 after. Factory number is .330.
I was pleased that my results were close to the numbers provided by Markaudio, and I was most impressed by how close the values of the two drivers were. That says much for the quality control at Markaudio.
According to my DATS results, both drivers had a resonant frequency of 45.76 Hz before break-in and 46.43 Hz after. Factory number is 42.398 Hz.
DC resistance on Driver #1 was 6.24 ohms before break-in and 6.21 ohms after. Driver #2 had values of 6.40 ohms before break-in and 6.39 ohms after. Factory number is 6.200 ohms.
Qts on Driver #1 was .340 before break-in and .343 after. Driver #2 had values of .345 before break-in and .356 after. Factory number is .330.
I was pleased that my results were close to the numbers provided by Markaudio, and I was most impressed by how close the values of the two drivers were. That says much for the quality control at Markaudio.
Pallas,
Your comments in this post are deleted.
You're not a driver designer/maker, neither is Floyd.
Mark.
Your comments in this post are deleted.
You're not a driver designer/maker, neither is Floyd.
Mark.
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While the break-in experiment results below may or may not be indicative of break-in outcomes with MA or other drivers, to me it strongly suggests what my ears have noticed…driver break-in results are definitely audible and aren't snake-oil voodoo. See the link
http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm
Mario
http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm
Mario
well thank you all for the comments...im no longer just a Mark audio buyer but an INFORMED BUYER
Hi f16voodoo1 (guys),
To clarify:
Please run in the latest Markaudio drivers:
1 - First 100 hours - low volume music only. The music should be general/vocals with modest bass. Please don't use any artificial and/or single tone signal signals this risks creating a memory patten in the outer 7 to 10 micron cone substrate. You can run the drivers in free air or near free air, but pay attention to the physical movement, the driver's power-train should not move more than 1mm.
2 - From 100 hours to 300 hours, gradually increase the load to normal listening levels. Typically and depending on room size, the volumes should be around low 80's dB near constant loads with peak loads not exceeding 86dB. For those without any SPL measuring equipment, set your system to moderate listening levels. You should be able to hold a conversation without raising your voice while the drivers are being run.
3 - From 300 hours out, the driver's power-train will enter its optimal load phase on its suspensions. Markaudio driver suspensions are critical components as they have to cope with long-throw demands of the cone/coil. I recommend some care from 300 to 500 hours as fully optimised suspensions will give you many years of reliable service life. Bass loads are available but go a little easy on the volume until passed 500 hours.
Remember fellas, Markaudio drivers are "long throw" light load units. They will give you allot of wide usable band width but they aren't designed for near constant maxed volume "rock un roll". The latest models have built-in arrestors to help avoid damage from accidental over-load, so this helps but its not a replacement for commence sense operation of these types of drivers, be they Markaudio or other full-rangers.
Hope this helps.
Thanks
Mark.
To clarify:
Please run in the latest Markaudio drivers:
1 - First 100 hours - low volume music only. The music should be general/vocals with modest bass. Please don't use any artificial and/or single tone signal signals this risks creating a memory patten in the outer 7 to 10 micron cone substrate. You can run the drivers in free air or near free air, but pay attention to the physical movement, the driver's power-train should not move more than 1mm.
2 - From 100 hours to 300 hours, gradually increase the load to normal listening levels. Typically and depending on room size, the volumes should be around low 80's dB near constant loads with peak loads not exceeding 86dB. For those without any SPL measuring equipment, set your system to moderate listening levels. You should be able to hold a conversation without raising your voice while the drivers are being run.
3 - From 300 hours out, the driver's power-train will enter its optimal load phase on its suspensions. Markaudio driver suspensions are critical components as they have to cope with long-throw demands of the cone/coil. I recommend some care from 300 to 500 hours as fully optimised suspensions will give you many years of reliable service life. Bass loads are available but go a little easy on the volume until passed 500 hours.
Remember fellas, Markaudio drivers are "long throw" light load units. They will give you allot of wide usable band width but they aren't designed for near constant maxed volume "rock un roll". The latest models have built-in arrestors to help avoid damage from accidental over-load, so this helps but its not a replacement for commence sense operation of these types of drivers, be they Markaudio or other full-rangers.
Hope this helps.
Thanks
Mark.
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I've had my Alpair 10.2 drivers (eNA) playing for at least 1500 hrs, maybe more.
They continue to improve. Bass output is much greater than when new, and integrates beautifully.
Definitely worth the wait !
I'm no longer sceptical about driver break-in.
They continue to improve. Bass output is much greater than when new, and integrates beautifully.
Definitely worth the wait !
I'm no longer sceptical about driver break-in.
mark,
thank you and all you guys. this has finally educated me on MA speakers. im on my third set of builds and i did some A/B testing.. subjective listening to the same type (pensil) one set over 150 hours and one set with less than 50 i will say that bass extension seems to improve greatly over time. however; i will say as a note, that at least MY brain does have some influence because all of a sudden my Magico Q 1's sound different and they have ALOT of hours on them.
again, Mark/ and all of you Thanks for all the GREAT info
lance
thank you and all you guys. this has finally educated me on MA speakers. im on my third set of builds and i did some A/B testing.. subjective listening to the same type (pensil) one set over 150 hours and one set with less than 50 i will say that bass extension seems to improve greatly over time. however; i will say as a note, that at least MY brain does have some influence because all of a sudden my Magico Q 1's sound different and they have ALOT of hours on them.
again, Mark/ and all of you Thanks for all the GREAT info
lance
Right. I remember Mark saying something about 1mm excursion. With A10M and A10P, this produces an SPL of 70dB 2m back in my listening room. In other words, this is my normal listening level! Break-in is not a problem. Turn them on and let them mature. Of course, I do listen to polite music. Not rap, etc.
Bob
Bob
I have elected to run in my latest purchases using Mozart string quartets for the first 100+ hours.
200-300 hours, Bob Dylan and Joni
400-500 hours, Rolling Stones and Zepplin
500+ hours! as rude as it get 😉
200-300 hours, Bob Dylan and Joni
400-500 hours, Rolling Stones and Zepplin
500+ hours! as rude as it get 😉
500+ break out the Metallica, Bob Marley, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, Verdi etc, but I'd still want to think about HP and "subs" with any of the metal cones at "realistic concert levels"
That's the next project, after the twin driver studio monitors (4x7.3)
Had my eye on the peerless xl10's for a FAST project. Not sure about the musicality above 150hz but they do seem to be a great bang for buck to take the lower end.
My other dilemma is implementation of the CO. I'm looking to make them active speakers and whilst the mini dsp looks inviting, I can't imagine it will offer a transparent path for the signal.
First order Butterworth looks ok, won't break the bank. Any recommendations?
Back on thread (sorry)
500 hours plus - Frank Zappa "why does it hurt when I pee?"
That's as rude as I get.
Had my eye on the peerless xl10's for a FAST project. Not sure about the musicality above 150hz but they do seem to be a great bang for buck to take the lower end.
My other dilemma is implementation of the CO. I'm looking to make them active speakers and whilst the mini dsp looks inviting, I can't imagine it will offer a transparent path for the signal.
First order Butterworth looks ok, won't break the bank. Any recommendations?
Back on thread (sorry)
500 hours plus - Frank Zappa "why does it hurt when I pee?"
That's as rude as I get.
This is our preferred XO (in PLLXO form) as long as the speaker can live with it. you can get away with as little as 4 caps & 2 resistors built into the interconnects if you want.
dave
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