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Old 9th July 2013, 08:51 PM   #101
suburra is offline suburra  Italy
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Those could easily be tuned higher, even with just a drill and a big bit (but only because the back is removable).

dave
Well...this news makes me
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Old 12th July 2013, 09:00 PM   #102
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FWIW, some initial impressions on the 10P, now my units have a reasonable number of hours on them.

The basics are easy enough to run through. LF performance is decent; it won't go quite as low as its metal cone sibling, but it's still solid for a 5in widebander. The FR seems respectably balanced, although while the suspension beds in, don't be surprised if it seems somewhat out of kilter. It'll come on-line with a few more hours on it. HF is also very well extended for a driver of this type. No real surprises there & nothing you couldn't get from the published data. Off-axis performance is also very good; the HF holds up well, without many obvious changes until you get to silly angles, in which case you're presumably not listening seriously in any case. What is less apparent from data sheets etc. is the fact that, as Mark has previously mentioned, the cone is extremely resonant-sensitive. This is the dominant characteristic of the 10P, and its main strength, but it can also be a double-edged sword: poor recordings sound that way.

I suspect opinion will polarise. If you're considering one of the new A10s, strong advice: think about the rest of your system & the direction you want to go, and make a decision accordingly. The 10P is a remarkable driver if you have a suitable system, or are able to put a bit of work in to exploit what they can do. You really need to be thinking carefully about system matching in order to get the best from them. I wouldn't say SET / DHT amplifiers are mandatory (they aren't), but they're a good starting point. Something like one of Nelson's First Watt designs (the F3 would be interesting) or a good class D / T amp would be favourite from the current crop of SS designs. Maybe a McIntosh. Almost certainly, come to think of it.

Not that it matters, it gets a big thumbs up from me. Anything that makes some of my favourite violin players seem as vivid / alive as this does, without taking my head off in the process is doing something right.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 12th July 2013 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 13th July 2013, 02:44 AM   #103
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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Excellent prelim review Scott! Can i ask how you'd compare your 10P to the 12P?
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Old 13th July 2013, 08:45 AM   #104
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I wouldn't really, given that they're of dissimilar sizes. Short version: the larger driver has the greater outright dynamic range; the smaller unit has slightly greater output at the top end, and is more resonant-sensitive throughout (although the 12P isn't exactly lacking on that score).
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Old 4th August 2013, 11:54 AM   #105
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Has anyone put either the 10P or 12P in a closed box by any chance?

Also, would they hold up to a bit of pounding dance music, or are they rather breakable/sensitive? Their resonance showing would be great for studio use, only wondering whether they would be sturdy enough or just break too often under a bit of duress.......
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Old 4th August 2013, 03:32 PM   #106
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by karloff70 View Post
Has anyone put either the 10P or 12P in a closed box by any chance?

Also, would they hold up to a bit of pounding dance music, or are they rather breakable/sensitive? Their resonance showing would be great for studio use, only wondering whether they would be sturdy enough or just break too often under a bit of duress.......

What size sealed box are you considering? I've only ever put 2 models of Mark's drivers in sealed enclosures :

- a teeny one for the A6M as rear surrounds in a small 5.1 system where the very high "bass" cut-off is moot
- CHR70 in something called mMarS (approx 5 liters)


To borrow a phrase from Doctor Moose, both "worked well within their design remit"


To the second question, I'd suggest than none of Mark's current drivers , or for that matter any of this class of wide-band single driver systems would really be suitable for pounding dance music, or even "studio monitoring" at the higher end of the SPL scale.
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Old 4th August 2013, 04:09 PM   #107
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What size sealed box are you considering? I've only ever put 2 models of Mark's drivers in sealed enclosures :

- a teeny one for the A6M as rear surrounds in a small 5.1 system where the very high "bass" cut-off is moot
- CHR70 in something called mMarS (approx 5 liters)


To borrow a phrase from Doctor Moose, both "worked well within their design remit"


To the second question, I'd suggest than none of Mark's current drivers , or for that matter any of this class of wide-band single driver systems would really be suitable for pounding dance music, or even "studio monitoring" at the higher end of the SPL scale.
Haven't done any calculating yet, but not a massive box. Like around 12L or so? Just big enough to get a feeling of body, no need for proper bass though, rather it be faster instead. More like a luxury, detailed and fatter Auratone type thing. So a very high bass cutoff is ok. Only they still need to be able to be driven with whatever type of music at a reasonable level without folding.

But like you say, it seems by description Mark's drivers are sounding so sweet due to very thin material and generally not what you'd call sturdyness, hence the detailed sound. What I am wondering is how easy in real terms it would be to blow them by overdoing it. By your account by the sound of it not very hard.

Mark? Any thoughts on putting a 10P in a smallish closed box about 12-15L as a luxury Auratone type studio monitor would be appreciated. Are they too easy to destroy for that task? Because the way you describe them 'murdering' anything but great recordings sounds ideal beyond belief for the task!
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Old 4th August 2013, 04:32 PM   #108
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They're not easy to 'blow', but it's essentially a case of using some plain old common sense and possessing more mechanical sympathy than a python.

All of the MA drivers apart from the 12P now have an arrestor which physically limits travel before damage can occur. If you insist on continuing to crank the volume-knob even when it's reached the limit of mechanical travel, you will eventually fry the VC. Not exactly a surprise there. However, constantly flogging any wideband driver to the limits of its available excursion will not do it any favours long term. If you want an analogy, hammering a car to the red line every time it's driven will result in a shortened lifespan than if you went a bit easier & only indulged on occasion. In any case, taking wideband drivers to high excursions will not do the sound any favours since the laws of physics mean that you're going to run into problems with FMD. The MA units have quite a bit of linear travel, but it's there to handle LF dynamic peaks when listening at a more normal average SPL.

As a general rule, if you want to crank bass-heavy dance music, Motorhead at 'live' SPLs etc., unsupported single-driver systems are rarely the natural choice. There is a limit to what a single small cone can do, most obviously being the amount of air it can shift. The MA drivers will make a better fist of it than many, & a sealed box is probably the best option since it controls the driver better than a vented. But it's not really what they're designed for, or what they do best. To use the car analogy again, it's a bit like taking a Lotus Excel across a field. It'll do it. But a Range Rover will do it better.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 4th August 2013 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 4th August 2013, 04:46 PM   #109
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Thanks!

Might rethink after all......
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Old 4th August 2013, 06:29 PM   #110
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Quote:
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Has anyone put either the 10P or 12P in a closed box by any chance?
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dave
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