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Old 22nd October 2013, 09:26 PM   #31
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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I'm a bit of a stickler for measurements. That's one of the things I value about the designs you have on your website, actually. Data! What a concept. They allow me to make an informed decision.

I'll wait until you get your setup debugged.

~Tom
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Old 22nd October 2013, 09:59 PM   #32
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Well, you can only tell so much from FR plots. Not having an anechoic chamber, the bottom end on my plots either are theoretical or show what the room sounds like. Since the top end should pretty much reflect what the driver sounds like, you can gain all you need to know from the manufacturer's plot. I realize that in this case, Mark has not published the 15* and 30* plots for the A12P. You will have to trust me on this: There is little or no difference between the dispersion of the A10P and the A12P. You should make your decision based on whether you want the slightly better detail of the A10P or the better weight of the A12P. It really depends on the music you will be playing most of the time.

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Old 23rd October 2013, 04:08 AM   #33
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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Yeah... I ran both drivers through Martin King's MathCad programs the other day. I put each driver in an MLTL and optimized it to the best of my ability. Here's what I found:

* The A10P can produce bass down to the high 30ies Hz. The A12P likes the low 40ies better. Yep, that's right. The bigger driver results in a higher f3 in my sims.
* The A10P produces 97 dB SPL at 5 W input. This is the power where it hits Xmax at 30 Hz. The A12P produces 100 dB SPL at 7 W input. This is the power where Xmax is reached at 30 Hz. The difference between 5 W and 7 W is 3 dB. In terms of perceived loudness, that's actually a pretty small difference. I just grabbed 30 Hz out of ... the blue.
* Cone break-up in the A10P starts around 3~4 kHz. For the A12P, it starts around 1.5 kHz. Kudos to Mark for taming the breakup. This is physics at work. But it does provide a possible explanation for why the A10P is reported to sound more detailed.

So basically, my conclusion is that $50 per driver buys you higher sensitivity. If that's your priority, get the A12P.

In my case, however, I prefer detail over bass punch, so I think I'll go with the A10P. I do know I prefer paper/fiber over the metal cones.

I think I've gone as far as I can in terms of reading up on the drivers and simulating their performance. To find out for sure if I like them, I have to actually build some speakers. Ya' know... Get my butt off the internetz and into the woodshop/garage...

Thanks Bob (et al). I appreciate your inputs.

~Tom
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Old 23rd October 2013, 05:38 AM   #34
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Yep, that's right. The bigger driver results in a higher f3 in my sims.
Mine too.A10.3m can go even lower (and A10.2 lower yet).

dave
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Old 23rd October 2013, 06:48 PM   #35
tomchr is offline tomchr  United States
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Is there an Alpair 10, paper, Gen. 2? When can we common folk expect to be able to get our paws on it and the specs for it?

~Tom
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Old 23rd October 2013, 07:32 PM   #36
toobhed is offline toobhed  United States
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Nope, Alpair 10.2 (gen 2) only came in "metal". It is my understanding that the new A10.3P is the first paper A10.
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Old 23rd October 2013, 07:39 PM   #37
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Nope, Alpair 10.2 (gen 2) only came in "metal". It is my understanding that the new A10.3P is the first paper A10.

actually, to be anal about it, I think Mark has designated the 10P as Gen 1 (current version that is - even those lucky enough to chat with him regularly could be surprised with what Team Alpair has going on in the group-think tank )
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Old 23rd October 2013, 07:42 PM   #38
toobhed is offline toobhed  United States
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...ah then, I stand corrected....
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Old 23rd October 2013, 07:48 PM   #39
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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oh, it's too easy to get confused - just look at my trying to decide which of the A10 or 12P is my favorite, much less which to recommend for any particular application
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Old 23rd October 2013, 08:12 PM   #40
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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The only thing, to me, that throws the weight of the choice in favor of the 10, is the Arrestor feature, because I know sooner or later someone (and it might be me), will try to crank the volume of beyond what is reasonable.
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