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Old 29th April 2013, 10:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by silverhairbp View Post
Scott,

Any chance of designing the Pencil enclosures to be a little taller with the driver at a higher point away from the floor? Would it be possible to have the driver around 30 - 34 inches / 75 - 85 cm above the floor?

Bill
I had a 10.2 built using Bob Brines plans but had the plans tweaked to raise the driver a bit. I'll also put on largerish floor spikes then put it on brick to raise it up even a bit more. I need to throw sound over a sofa armrest. Too much furniture but gotta keep wifey happy too~
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Old 3rd May 2013, 11:02 PM   #42
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Hi Fellas,
We've done all the finals on this driver. The Markaudio team and the local beta testing has all come back the "thumbs up" so this driver is now in production. Evan's new coil and a cone profile tweak have brought the performance of this driver up. For those who know the Alpair 7 Gen.3, this new 10 metal sounds like its bigger brother.

For me personally, I've much enjoyed using the pre-production prototypes. The 10 metal, to my ears, is the most "rounded" performer we make. It takes on pretty much all forms of music without allot of fuss. It remains "smooth" while extracting more detail from the music, particularly in the higher mids to highs.

The first batch are destined for Madisound USA and for Japan. For those wishing to design boxes, please use the data provided in Post No.1 of this thread.

Thanks
Mark.
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Old 4th May 2013, 03:40 AM   #43
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Exciting news!!

Thanks for the update, Mark!
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Old 9th May 2013, 02:53 PM   #44
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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Hey Mark, glad to see that you're moving forward with the Alpair 10's. I'm curious about why you're using the dimpled dust cap on the 10P and not on the 10.3M. Can you elaborate on how the dimple affects the sound and why it's used on one and not the other?

Thanks,
Steven

Edit: Woops, I read in the 10P thread that the dimple smooths out the response from >18khz. Still curious why it isn't used in the metal model or if perhaps the metal has a smoother response that doesn't need taming? If so how/why? My general thought process leads me to believe that paper construction would always be regarded as smoother.

Last edited by StevenZ; 9th May 2013 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 9th May 2013, 10:44 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by StevenZ View Post
Hey Mark, glad to see that you're moving forward with the Alpair 10's. I read in the 10P thread that the dimple smooths out the response from >18khz. Still curious why it isn't used in the metal model or if perhaps the metal has a smoother response that doesn't need taming? If so how/why? My general thought process leads me to believe that paper construction would always be regarded as smoother.
Thanks,
Steven
Hi Steve (Guys),
Re the "dimple" et al. its a design issue related to driven load mass. Basically, the lighter we go, the less stable the emitting surface area becomes. The 10P's power-train (cone, cap, coil + suspensions) is the lightest we've made in the 10 size. The cap in particular is uber light, dimple increases rigidity at peak point HF remittances (+ 18kHz).

We hope to be testing the latest 10P suspensions today, results published next week (apologies for delay as we had to make all new front suspension alignment tools). You will see the 10P has a more variable frequency response (dips and peaks). So I've had to work hard on sorting out the cone's wide dispersion characteristics. This performance tweak has been partly spotted by Bob Brines in his MLTL box thread re Alpair 12P's (quoted from comments in post 15)

"Given how ragged the FR trace is, I am surprised at how good these speakers sound. Speaks volumes to the fact that we hear a 1/3 octave smoothed version of the actual FR".

What Bob missed is that the 12P's disperse is doing the work to create the "smooth" in what we hear. Dispersion is a bit of a frightener for most driver designers. The good ones know its important, but to achieve it, a wider lower profile cone is needed. However, this increases risk of component edge collapse under oscillation loads (LF) and greater substrate surface fracturing under higher frequencies, as the contour of near-flat cones makes them inherently weaker. Mechanical Engineers like me sometimes refer to this functional issue as "load shunting", moving an object/component backwards, then forwards quickly (cyclical load reversal). This might help you to think about partly why many traditional high efficiency full-range designs have shorter throws.

Oooops I'm starting to give much of my trade-craft away.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 9th May 2013 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 10th May 2013, 04:14 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by StevenZ View Post
My general thought process leads me to believe that paper construction would always be regarded as smoother.
Thanks,
Steven
Apologies Steven, I didn't talk about your thinking on which is "smoother" to the typical audiophile ear between paper and metal cones.

This one's harder to judge. Certainly in the ye olde days before I came along with my metal cone making methods, the alloys selected by others had higher brittle fracture values so they tented to sound "tinny" but were considered more robust. Anyone who used or remembers the first Alpair 10 will recall how "soft" its tone was, due to the much lower fracture compliant alloy grade used. The second and now the third Gen drivers use a mixed grade that's not quite as soft, but nothing as hard as some of the old grades.

The results are familiar the many Alpair 10 users, that metal cone drivers can be "smooth" sounding. If anything the new 10M is more "docile" sounding than the new 10P. But like all things, one guy's "smooth" is another's "no detail" so only end users can decide.

Certainly where Markaudio drivers are concerned, metal cones I think are generally considered well balanced (neutral) in terms of general listening pleasure.

Thanks
Mark.
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Old 10th May 2013, 03:40 PM   #47
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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Thanks for the great information, Mark! I can't wait until these come state side so I can try them out. Looking forward to another fantastic product by you and your team.

Cheers,
Steven
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Old 17th May 2013, 01:10 PM   #48
RevMen is offline RevMen  United States
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I'm checking Madisound every day for these.
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Old 17th May 2013, 01:28 PM   #49
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I'm checking Madisound every day for these.
And don't forget that Planet10 (Dave) is also a dealer.
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Old 17th May 2013, 05:55 PM   #50
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I'm checking Madisound every day for these.
Keep in mind, that there are about 5 weeks of travel between HK and Madisound.

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