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Old 10th March 2013, 04:08 AM   #21
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Default Enclosure's volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
Interesting. It did not occur to me that it is a "vent" in the traditional sense.

I had assumed it is simply a termination point, and that the height and width were the critical dimensions, whereas the "depth" was a simple function of the material used.

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi there: Your drawing shows the origional front (colored red) positioned between the sides, I'm curious to know if you changed the side depth dimension to maintain the origional enclosure volume? If not, the box volume will be sightly larger than designed. Hope you will post photos of the wood finishes applied and further listening experiences. Nice project...regards, Michael
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Old 10th March 2013, 04:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
Quick question:

Can I expect the break-in period, and corresponding performance improvement, of the Alpair 10.2 to equal that which I experienced with the EL70 drivers?
Hi C, (Guys)
Best to run-in the Alp 10 Gen.2's gently over a 200 hour period. Appreciate thats allot of time at low volumes. Reasons for doing this are:

1- The compliance of the 10's suspensions are critical. The power-train is long-throw and near linear resistance up to 7-mm of travel (1 way). So its important to gradually bed them in, thus avoiding any potential un-evenness in the elasticity profile of both suspensions.

2- The Flex Ratio of the multi-form cone becomes optimised around the 400 to 600 hours into service duration. Time spent carefully running-in (200 hours or more if you have the patience) will avoid creating memory layers in the cone's substrate and surface treatment. Hence why varied general light music (including vocals) is recommended for the running-in period. Please DON'T use ANY artificial repetitive input signal of ANY KIND. I can't stress this enough, any use of such inputs will most likely adversely alter the designed performance profile of the cone.

Patience and care will bring musical rewards.

Cheers
Mark.
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Old 10th March 2013, 06:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.michael droke View Post
Hi there: Your drawing shows the origional front (colored red) positioned between the sides, I'm curious to know if you changed the side depth dimension to maintain the origional enclosure volume? If not, the box volume will be sightly larger than designed. Hope you will post photos of the wood finishes applied and further listening experiences. Nice project...regards, Michael
Yes, I changed all panel dimensions appropriately to maintain precise interior dimensions.

I have some more photos but have not had a chance to review them...
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Old 10th March 2013, 06:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by nrg2009 View Post
Great build. WAF seems good. How about some more photos??? Above all: enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Thanks! Will post some more later...
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Old 10th March 2013, 06:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi C, (Guys)
Best to run-in the Alp 10 Gen.2's gently over a 200 hour period. Appreciate thats allot of time at low volumes. Reasons for doing this are:

1- The compliance of the 10's suspensions are critical. The power-train is long-throw and near linear resistance up to 7-mm of travel (1 way). So its important to gradually bed them in, thus avoiding any potential un-evenness in the elasticity profile of both suspensions.

2- The Flex Ratio of the multi-form cone becomes optimised around the 400 to 600 hours into service duration. Time spent carefully running-in (200 hours or more if you have the patience) will avoid creating memory layers in the cone's substrate and surface treatment. Hence why varied general light music (including vocals) is recommended for the running-in period. Please DON'T use ANY artificial repetitive input signal of ANY KIND. I can't stress this enough, any use of such inputs will most likely adversely alter the designed performance profile of the cone.

Patience and care will bring musical rewards.

Cheers
Mark.
Thanks for the detailed response Mark. I have been following the break-in instructions in the PDF, and based on previous advice from Dave and Scott, and experience with my EL70 drivers.

I am wondering if you can comment any further on the comparison between break-in improvements of EL70 vs. Alpair 10.2. In other words, the improvement in sound with EL70 was nothing short of amazing, especially the bass. Can I expect the same type of improvements with the A10.2?

The reason I ask is because while I am currently blown away by the mids and highs (hence, my earlier "OMG" post) of the A10.2, I am not overly impressed by the bass response of this driver/box combo at this point. This is due in part to listening at such low levels, I suppose, however my dual EL70 microTowers have much better bass at the same levels... I find this very surprising to say the least.

Last edited by cogitech; 10th March 2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:25 AM   #26
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Default Awkward Port Solution

Hey all,

As noted earlier by Scott, the result of my re-arrangement of the panel orientation resulted in both an awkward look and probable sonic differences.

Correcting both of these issues ended up bing quite simple. I removed the speaker grille cloth from the grille of an old, gutted Sansui speakers and built a frame which completes the three missing sides of the "port". I plan to stain the wood a medium-dark brown, which will match the grille.

I'll let the photos tell the rest of the story. In the final photo, you will see that the grille doesn't quite fit all the way yet, as I have the speaker cable fed through the port while I await delivery of some banana terminals.

Click the image to open in full size.


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Old 11th March 2013, 12:36 AM   #27
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Default Listening Notes

My concerns about bass have been reduced by the fact that I realized I have my soft-EQ set to flat for the break-in period.

In this respect, I cannot fairly compare the sound to the EL70s, which do work best with some moderate enhancement of the bass and treble.

Furthermore, I have begun to increase the volume a bit now (after about 36 hours). Not LOUD loud, but not super-quiet, either. It seems the bass is starting to open up...

Mids and treble are incredible. Imaging is considerably more impressive than EL70. The highs, especially, are much more airy than EL70 (which was expected).

The "beaming" mentioned by some others is evident, and the sweet spot is not much larger than my head.
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:42 AM   #28
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Nicely done.
I have two questions that show my complete lack of speaker design, but i will ask anyway: 1. could the slot be moved higher?
2 Will carpet influence the sound? Should i place them on a pedestal higher up, or place some more reflective material in front of the speaker?

Thanks
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:51 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by nrg2009 View Post
Nicely done.
I have two questions that show my complete lack of speaker design, but i will ask anyway: 1. could the slot be moved higher?
2 Will carpet influence the sound? Should i place them on a pedestal higher up, or place some more reflective material in front of the speaker?

Thanks
I am not the designer, however I think the location of the slot couples the speaker with the floor, which likely has a significant effect on bass. I have seen some builds of this design which do incorporate an exremely low pedestal. The one I am thinking of waas actually higher in the front than the back, in order to angle the face of the speaker upwards toward the listener slightly. Perhaps 3/4" at the back and 1.5 inches at the front. It looks cool, but not sure of the sonic effects.

I have been contemplating something similar to integrate with my slot grille.

Last edited by cogitech; 11th March 2013 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:53 AM   #30
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Very nice job. What kind of wood?

Though I've heard people complain about beaming for 45 years, there are circumstances where it is an advantage. Acoustat Model 4s are a perfect example of wonderful speakers that are exceptional beamy (boy, those needed a big room, took over half our basement!!). Beaming helps make it easier to "adjust" the amount of treble from a speaker depending on how the speaker is aimed at the listening position. Directional speakers can also help overcome room reflections.

Since I tend to listen by myself, I just adjust the speaker to my specific favorite recliner in its most comfortable position. No other listening positions needs to be considered.
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