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Old 31st January 2013, 02:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Frankly, since I'm the world's worst woodworker, I wish it didn't.

I resent you're assuming that crown. I know of two others that are dismal woodworkers. One lives east of Seattle and has been crowned "Bondo King" and I am a close runner-up.

You have a long way to go to catch up with us old guys. We've had decades of serious practice in bad woodworking.

Last edited by silverhairbp; 31st January 2013 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 02:10 PM   #22
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Strong men run for the hills if they think I'm planning to even look at a power-tool.
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Old 31st January 2013, 02:13 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post


Strong men run for the hills if they think I'm planning to even look at a power-tool.
+2 (LOL)

I abdicate. But Terry is likely to pull out some modern art he once described as an enclosure. Wait, he's not on this forum, but he's friends with the BC gang of speaker thugs.
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Old 31st January 2013, 07:38 PM   #24
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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but anybody tried surface mounting alpair 10.2 in pencil or vented bookshelf designs. does it effect the sound quality considerably?
This was the question. I'm not sure anyone's actually answered it.

By not rebating the driver, you get 10mm worth of 'severe surface discontinuity' = worth of extra diffractions artefacts on top of all the usual diffraction artefacts at the corners of a box, walls, ceiling, furniture. Ooooh geeez.

I have a pair of speakers with A12Ps 'surface mounted'. Other systems flush/mounted rebated. Is the exposed edge of a driver frame all that different to a grill attached to front of baffle? Or the exposed 'dress frame' of a Fostex? The protruding box edge frame of a Spendor, Tannoy, the vertical grill struts around a Vandersteen etc etc. Yes rebating is part of conventional wisdom, popular consensus. Listening in a 'normal' position - on axis, in a stereo triangle, in a normal room - rebating or not rebating will NOT make a 'considerable' difference to the sound you hear. Whilst the 'diffraction issues' of the exposed frame maybe theoretically increased, do you hear them? Not rebating doesn't make your speakers dysfunctional or invalid IMO.
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Old 31st January 2013, 09:59 PM   #25
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You're back to exaggerating other people's statements again. What was said is that:

-MA drivers are designed for flush mounting.
-Diffraction effects exist if you don't flush mount.
-These are measureable and audible.
-If you want to get the best performance from MA drive units, flush mounting is required.

End of story.

Since 'considerably' means nothing without qualification, only the OP can answer that. The fact is though it does affect behaviour & therefore performance. In which case, an extra hour or two of effort (if you're not a good woodworker -it becomes a few minutes if you are) in building is not unreasonable. The existence of room artifacts et al does not render attempting to reduce other issues, or maximise the potential of a given design as far as practical / sensible, pointless. If it did, we'd all be listening to Bush minisystems.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 31st January 2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 31st January 2013, 10:13 PM   #26
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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It takes less than 5 minutes to flushmount it!

The flange is like 10mm thick! You HAVE to flushmount it!
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Old 31st January 2013, 10:25 PM   #27
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I'll drink to that!
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Old 31st January 2013, 10:27 PM   #28
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I've just finished my prosecco.

For some reason, I feel a sense of loss.
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Old 31st January 2013, 10:29 PM   #29
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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It's not just the diffraction effect, which only affects frequency response (could be better or worse), but it would block off the rear ventilation of the woofer.
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Old 31st January 2013, 11:03 PM   #30
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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Why do manufacturers only measure dispersion out to 45 degrees or so? Do the vast majority of sound waves we hear when in typical listening position, radiate from the driver or the baffle? Do the sound waves come off the driver cone and quickly turn 90 degrees, flick around the edge of the non rebated driver frame, bounce back off the baffle backwards at 45 degrees back over to your ear? If we consider the dispersion of sound from a driver as being pretty much like a torch beam. Off axis the amplitude of rising frequencies from the driver/baffle is breaking up and falling away quite rapidly. The more off axis you are the more it breaks up. This is dispersion isn't it?. That's why we have tweeters. In wide range the higher the frequency the more it beams from centre resonating part of of driver. I think. Longer sound waves, bass waves are more omni, they go around corners, so they're that long - they wouldn't be effected by 10mm frame edge. Mid sound waves are halfway in-between. But I think the soundwaves would have to be pretty short to be significantly effected by a 10mm frame protrusion. If they're beaming off the driver, how is it they are effected by the 10mm frame protrusion? Can you explain this to me? If you stand at 90 degrees to the side of the beam/lobe of your speakers - you're now pretty much listening to the room above 150hz or so. Correct or not? Thanks gents.
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