subwoofer augmentation for alpair 10.2 - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 29th March 2013, 03:05 PM   #21
Octavia is offline Octavia  United States
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This is completely over the top of your $400 budget but worth a read nevertheless;

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/do...20Sub_copy.pdf

I might add just an opinion that combining dipole sub and sealed sat's can worked pretty good as evidenced by Gradient Revolution speakers that uses this approach.
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Old 31st March 2013, 03:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Sound,
Much depends on the type of music you're going to play as previously mentioned. Since your not a "bass freak", I'd urge some caution re selecting such a large bass driver.

I remain worried at the number of FAST (et al) projects that overlook the emittance limitations of large drivers, especially Subs.

Large Sub Woofers, Especially Pro versions with high power handling will likely have compromised micro-resonant emittance. Their cone structures will be relatively high mass, the cone substrate under oscillation won't carry the sub-resonant pattern within the main carrier signal running across its surface. The result is much musical detail is lost.

One tip is to compare moving masses (MMS), see which makes and types of sort/size your looking at, offers the lowest MMS. That at least will give some chance of finding a large driver that might have a more sympathetic emittance match. Such a driver might sacrifice some power handling compared to others, but for most home uses, lower power handling in large drives shouldn't cause any difficulties. Naturally, there are other design factors to consider, as mentioned by other members, but this one shouldn't be overlooked.

The coffee table might be the best yet!!

Cheers
Mark.
after understanding the relation of 'emmittance' and cone size, one possible solution thats popping up is to go for smaller subs(say 6") in an array(say 4 per side). as per my knowledge, this could effectively have acceptable higher SPLs at lowbass range,total air volume moved and still maintain that dynamics. if i am not wrong, may not need huge power also and could get away with max. power supported by the drivers(say 200W max). need to look at other issues such arrays would pose though. anybody tried this?
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Old 31st March 2013, 11:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by soundnovice View Post
after understanding the relation of 'emmittance' and cone size, one possible solution thats popping up is to go for smaller subs(say 6") in an array(say 4 per side). as per my knowledge, this could effectively have acceptable higher SPLs at lowbass range,total air volume moved and still maintain that dynamics. if i am not wrong, may not need huge power also and could get away with max. power supported by the drivers(say 200W max). need to look at other issues such arrays would pose though. anybody tried this?
Hello SoundN,
In interesting thought. There are other complex system design issues to contend with when going multiple drivers.

Re your last post, I've deleted the information you found/quoted as is was inconsistent and confusing. I'm commenting on resonance/emittance. Ive designed and tested allot of cones for several years, but it remains only one of many factors for project designers to consider.

Thanks
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 31st March 2013 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 15th April 2013, 03:34 AM   #24
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I'd like to try the CSS SDX10. Is it as easy as using the driver in a sealed box with a low pass filter or do I need a fancy (expensive) EQ unit or antimode device?

EE
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Old 15th April 2013, 06:52 AM   #25
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That is how i will be using mine. (x4)

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Old 15th April 2013, 01:02 PM   #26
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Matching an 18"er with full-range drivers seems a little pointless, unless you're chasing infrasonic movie effects. The satellites will probably run out of power handling before the subwoofer starts moving much, for normal music use.
HT is a different matter, as decent 18Hz performance (to pull a number out of the sky) requires a lot of air to be moved.

I'd stick with home drivers - they're likely to have much better distortion performance than a PA woofer, whose primary purpose is to withstand putting out huge SPLs for prolonged periods. Really good PA drivers will sound good while putting out those SPLs, but you'll pay an awful lot for that performance.
Home drivers are intended to sound good, but that makes the assumption that you won't abuse them much.

Avoid using lots of smaller drivers. 4x 6" drivers aren't the same as a single 12" driver: a decent 12" sub can move 1" p/p cleanly. 4x 6" drivers have the same cone area as a 12", but each one would have to move 1" p/p to match the 12"er. This is clearly unacceptable for a 6" driver (there are some that are rated for it, but they won't do it cleanly).
IMO, you'd need 8x 6" drivers to keep up with a single 12" - each 6" would have to move 1/2" p/p, which is more acceptable.
Watch the excursion to diameter ratios if you go down that route.

Chris
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Old 15th April 2013, 03:08 PM   #27
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If you are using a 12in driver and it's moving 1in, then assuming there are no problems with the enclosure alignment, you clearly need to use more of them, or a larger woofer. Or turn the music down since in many cases you'll be listening at levels that will rapidly cause long-term physiological damage.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 15th April 2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 15th April 2013, 03:15 PM   #28
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Agreed. The numbers are more to illustrate what I mean: I'd consider 1/2" fairly abusive toward a 6" woofer, too.

That said, the 12" sub I'm using at the moment occasionally gets pushed to 1" p/p travel. It currently resides in a sealed box, so I'm going to go ported and get another - should give everything an easier time.
Only problem is that I'm rather short on space, being in student accomodation. Next year should be better.

Too much power is almost enough...

Chris
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Old 15th April 2013, 04:21 PM   #29
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I know. My terrible sense of humour gets the better of me on occasion.

I also know the feeling re lack of space Chris. That 12in unit must be begging for mercy at the moment -what have you done, presumably Linkwitz-transformed it (or the digital equivalent thereof)?

Last edited by Scottmoose; 15th April 2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 16th April 2013, 04:32 AM   #30
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I'm wondering if the CSS XD10 would be a worthwhile addition to the 10.2's in a Pensil or not. They have such amazing quick defined bass with an overall coherency from top to bottom that I could see a sub actually detracting from the whole experience and not adding to it as I have heard in other peoples systems where the woofers can't keep up and have phase issues, room problems etc and just sound overall off. It seems like adding bass is an art in itself that can take a few doodads to make it work.

The other question I have is would a SET 2A3 amp play the 10.2's louder if the CSS SDX10 had a low pass filter to take the weight off down below?

Last edited by eaglears; 16th April 2013 at 04:43 AM.
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