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Old 17th January 2013, 01:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
Given the brouhaha surrounding the xmax issue of these drivers, I find it very encouraging to find that you've managed to come up with a simple, yet elegant way, to make sure that these issues are hopefully rendered inert.
What are the arrestors made of, if you don't mind me asking?
Hi 5th,
I appreciate your complement. However, given some of dubious argument you made last year and the combative/dismissive manner of those comments, its clear to me that your agenda at that time was designed to damage Markaudio. There's no point in us engaging any further as any trust in exchanging ideas between us has long been broken.

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 17th January 2013 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 17th January 2013, 02:59 AM   #12
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Wow. I had no intention of damaging Mark Audio at all and the fact you even think this I find rather worrying.

The point of my other posts was to get you to try and address the problems that people were appearing to have when running their drivers at xmax, by quoting an xmech parameter so as to give a reliable number that could be used as a guide as to what is unconditionably safe for continuous use.

The fact you've come up with this Arrestor only shows that something did need to be done and that I wasn't just creating a fuss over nothing. I never had anything against MA and am genuinely pleased that you've managed to come up with not only a solution to the problem, but also one that doesn't require extended knowledge about box design and loudspeaker parameters in able to benefit from it. It really is an excellent and elegant way to address the issue and one that allows the driver to otherwise be left untouched. In other words you could have solved the issue no doubt by altering the suspension compliance of the spider to limit the motion of the cone at large excursions, but that would probably have had a detrimental effect on the performance of the driver elsewhere. This arrestor protects the driver but conveniently has no impact on the drivers performance when it isn't needed.

From our previous conversations, if you ever thought that I had something against your company then I apologise as that was not my intention.
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Old 17th January 2013, 03:46 AM   #13
SirByrd is offline SirByrd  United States
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How does it work?
Any why won't they be on the 12Ps?

Also, when will you be sending out the next batch with them installed?

Thanks!
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Old 17th January 2013, 04:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
Wow. I had no intention of damaging Mark Audio at all and the fact you even think this I find rather worrying.

The point of my other posts was to get you to try and address the problems that people were appearing to have when running their drivers at xmax, by quoting an xmech parameter so as to give a reliable number that could be used as a guide as to what is unconditionably safe for continuous use.

The fact you've come up with this Arrestor only shows that something did need to be done and that I wasn't just creating a fuss over nothing. I never had anything against MA and am genuinely pleased that you've managed to come up with not only a solution to the problem, but also one that doesn't require extended knowledge about box design and loudspeaker parameters in able to benefit from it. It really is an excellent and elegant way to address the issue and one that allows the driver to otherwise be left untouched. In other words you could have solved the issue no doubt by altering the suspension compliance of the spider to limit the motion of the cone at large excursions, but that would probably have had a detrimental effect on the performance of the driver elsewhere. This arrestor protects the driver but conveniently has no impact on the drivers performance when it isn't needed.

From our previous conversations, if you ever thought that I had something against your company then I apologise as that was not my intention.
Hi 5th,
I honestly have no problem with anyone putting their view forward, I welcome it as a way of learning and development. But there is a good to it, and then there's a bad way to do it. Commenting on forums is as much about style and consideration, as it is about substance.

When you have time, take a closer at what you said last year, some of it was well below the belt line. Sadly, your assertions damaged sales, dropping some 25% for 3 months, my email bag grew several fold with guys referring to your comments, asking me if they could ever safely use the drivers. For the record (again) Markaudio reject rates and warranty returns are 0.4% of all production, well inside the industry norm for these types of driver. Other members also pointed out other makes were just as vulnerable, but you continued to use Markaudio as the "whipping boy" to sustain your argument.

I'm certain you could have made your points without creating this level of damage to our business. Markaudio is very small business facing many challenges. We don't have the resources and strengths of our competitors, none of whom risk engaging with members on this or any other forum that I know of.

Next time you choose to "chew a bone" by pinning it to a company the size of mine, please consider the consequences. Think about the effect it has on those at the receiving end.

I earnestly will value future contributions from you. Its clear you've got a good deal of knowledge and experience. But if your method/style of delivery (intentional or not) compromises our commercial survival, Diyers and end-users loose out. They (we all) end up have to take what the big maker boys dish out; And how many times have any of them asked Diyers/end-users what's wanted, desired and/or needed.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 17th January 2013 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 17th January 2013, 04:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by SirByrd View Post
How does it work?
Any why won't they be on the 12Ps?
Also, when will you be sending out the next batch with them installed?
Thanks!
It works by physically damping the more extreme movement of the power-train. The base of the coil comes into contact with the flexible damper, thus slowing down and arresting the movement.

Good question re Alpair 12P. Should this driver be operated to such an extreme, its going to be screaming its head-off well before it reaches the point of failure. Given that its very much a driver designed for lower power operation and the cone is more robust compared to its predecessor, I think (hope) there's less risk of it being used outside its specs.

All the same, I'd like to be belt and braces, would much like to fund the tooling for an arrestor, but sadly funds aren't sufficient for me to do it at this time.

Cheers
Mark.
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Old 17th January 2013, 04:37 AM   #16
SirByrd is offline SirByrd  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
It works by physically damping the more extreme movement of the power-train. The base of the coil comes into contact with the flexible damper, thus slowing down and arresting the movement.

Good question re Alpair 12P. Should this driver be operated to such an extreme, its going to be screaming its head-off well before it reaches the point of failure. Given that its very much a driver designed for lower power operation and the cone is more robust compared to its predecessor, I think (hope) there's less risk of it being used outside its specs.

All the same, I'd like to be belt and braces, would much like to fund the tooling for an arrestor, but sadly funds aren't sufficient for me to do it at this time.

Cheers
Mark.
Awesome. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 17th January 2013, 05:07 AM   #17
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I still can't honestly work out just how dense someone would have to be to continuously run a wideband driver at large deflections of between 1/3 - > 1/2in, irrespective of what the rated Xmax (an all but meaningless figure in any event given the multiple definitions, all of which attach different values, and assess it by different criteria) might be. You'd need the mechanical sympathy of a python. This is akin to saying 'my car can do 150mph. So that's how fast I drive it m'lud. All the time.' Give me strength. There can't be that many knuckle-draggers out there, surely. Please. Somebody tell me there aren't. Or is the evening air nowadays invariably rent by the cries of the first eleven as they swing through the girders on their way to the pitch? Presumably the second eleven, not yet having attained the power of perpendicular travel, go on all fours.

Either way, the arrestor seems a good idea & neat solution to prevent accidental damage in units that don't use progressive-rate suspensions to limit travel (XBL designs have a similar trait IIRC). I'd like to think that's what it would be: very rare accidents rather than the necessity of saving Captain Caveman from himself.
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Old 17th January 2013, 02:14 PM   #18
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Sadly, Scott, I think that you will remain disappointed in the intelligence/musical tastes of the current generation. I lurk on some other forums that cater to the newer DIYers, particularly the Parts Express forum. The quest is for concert level SPL out of a 3" driver in the smallest possible box. That playing the current super compressed "music" and the driver has to cost less then $10. Fortunately, they would never pop for and Alpair 6/7, but they might go for CHR-70/CHP-70. They could destroy one of those in minutes. 200hr break-in? Really?

Bob
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Old 18th January 2013, 03:04 AM   #19
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How about break 200 of them in an hour? Knuckle draggers brag about their callouses. Look at the subwoofer threads re power handling. It's a truck commercial..."No Limits!"
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Old 18th January 2013, 03:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Knuckle draggers brag about their callouse
Scott posted this appropriate pic earlier

Click the image to open in full size.

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