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Old 30th December 2012, 10:17 AM   #11
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Now what are you drivelling about?

Hmm. You seem to be making an attempt at insulting Chris for employing 24ga wire. Presumably, this is based upon scientific principles (specifics unspecified). So. Using your extensive knowledge of Chris's speakers, amplifiers and the total loop-length (1 channel) of the wire he uses, please state your criteria for maximum acceptable voltage drop and the minimum wire gauge necessary for him to achieve this. I throw this out merely as one example of a host of factors which you obviously considered before posting.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 30th December 2012 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 11:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phivates View Post
Such as birch or maple sawdust?
Hi Phivates,
Its nice to see a bit of humour. I'm hoping you mean no personal dis-respect to ChrisB or any other member, your comments being merely to encourage debate. The risk with this approach is, in written form, your humourous intension could be mis-understood.

Judging from your posts, your possibly a believer in exotic cabling. If so, your next post has to include authoritative evidence or well documented research to demonstrate your point of view.

Bear in mind that Markaudio drivers while they are used in Multi-way systems are primarily single point source drivers, so cabling is the main issue rather than connecting between crossover components.

I'm all for honest debate on this part of the forum, provided its done with respect.

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 30th December 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 11:57 PM   #13
noPiano is offline noPiano  Greece
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thank all . I am waiting for the debate , I have some time couse I will buy cables next week..
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:01 AM   #14
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I'm not snarking on ChrisB's commentary; I agree completely. I've used 4 wire phone cable in the past. And I'm no expert on any of this, except the sawdust part, being a semi retired finish carpenter and an amateur speaker builder for decades. When the cash flow permits I will be buying MA drivers but for now I have a backlog of multiway stuff to refurb and unload to generate said cash. So my comment was off topic.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:20 AM   #15
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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phivates, et al

I wasn't particularly offended by the original "how could you?", and clearly enjoy a little passive aggressive repartee as much as the next "forum keyboard artist", but admit to some bewilderment as to the context and relevance of "birch or maple dust?"

To the original poster, if it even matters anymore, in the 40+yrs I've been playing with this hobby, I've owned/listened to a fairly wide range of speaker cabling / interconnects (did you know that 300 ohm ladder antennae lead can make a perfectly acceptable speaker wire? I ran over 60ft from my folks Clairtone console to a remote pair of basement speakers, circa 1965 - I wish I could remember if/how I dealt with polarity marking for phasing) . Heck, I've even heard of guys demonstrating that an unfolded coat hanger would "work".

Frankly I can't even remember/ don't care how my "philosophy" on the subject evolved, but after using Fulton Brown, Levinson, Linn K40, Cobra Cable, QED, to name just a few over the years, I gravitated to using the smallest amount of conductive material in both the wire itself and the necessary interconnecting hardware (jacks/ plugs) - hence the #24 wire, $2.00 binding posts and as concession to convenience, the Pomona dual banana plugs.

Does all wire sound the same? probably not

Do I lose any sleep over what someone else thinks about it in the context of my own systems, and the path traveled to get to this point?
Doesn't the parsing of the above sentence include the answer to that?

Mark, apologies if you consider this a waste of bandwidth - I could certainly understand that.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noPiano View Post
thank all . I am waiting for the debate , I have some time couse I will buy cables next week..
Hi noPiano,
Something of possible interest for you. I was given some Atmos 309 Silver plate cable 2 years ago. I've had no time to evaluate it in depth, but from a few long listening sessions, I audibly noticed the following when swopping from Sommer copper cable:

(Note this is only my personal experience from hours of casual experimentation, nothing specifically measured)

1 - Alpair 7.3 - ATmos increases the intensity of the upper mid and high range. A bit too sharp for my taste so I stick to copper cable on this driver.

2 - CHR Gen 1 and 2, I found the Atmos brightened these drivers which worked well. However, the Gen.3 driver has the more sensitive Multi-Form cone, I found it sounds better on copper cable.

3 - Alpair 10 Gen.1 on Atmos was nice as this driver has a very soft cone. The Gen 2 driver with its more rigid Multi-Form cone also sounded more extended on the Atmos.

As yet, I've not tried ATmos on the other drivers.

Hope this helps you.

Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components

Cheers
Mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Atmos 309.jpg (733.9 KB, 106 views)

Last edited by markaudio; 31st December 2012 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phivates View Post
I'm not snarking on ChrisB's commentary; I agree completely. I've used 4 wire phone cable in the past. And I'm no expert on any of this, except the sawdust part, being a semi retired finish carpenter and an amateur speaker builder for decades. When the cash flow permits I will be buying MA drivers but for now I have a backlog of multiway stuff to refurb and unload to generate said cash. So my comment was off topic.
Hi P,
Good to see this post. I've also got to clear-out my HK warehouse, sad as there's lots of vintage audio goodies gathering dust, but the storage space has to be sold.

NoPiano is looking advice on cable selection. Maybe you could suggest some particular cable choices from your past experience.

Thanks
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 31st December 2012 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:43 AM   #18
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Guys,
One thought striking me is the large price range variation in cables. Lautsprecher's site offers a wide choice, scroll down their page.

Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components

I'd be really interested to know if any member has experimented between the expensive choices and the basic cable shown on Laut's site.

For example, ATmos 309 copper is 6.90 Euro per metre, while the Silver plate version (samples I was given) is a whacking 19.90 Euro per metre. I'll have to tap my trade source, see if he'll "lend" a few metres of the copper version.

There's 1.5-mm "standard" cable on the Laut site for a modest 0.65 Euro per metre. Be interesting if any member has used this type of cable, or evaluated it against other choices.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 31st December 2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 01:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
phivates, et al

I wasn't particularly offended by the original "how could you?", and clearly enjoy a little passive aggressive repartee as much as the next "forum keyboard artist", but admit to some bewilderment as to the context and relevance of "birch or maple dust?"

Mark, apologies if you consider this a waste of bandwidth - I could certainly understand that.
Hi Chris (Senior members, Experienced Fellas),
I'm glad to see your contributions, passing on your experiences is much needed as I'm always playing "catch-up" with my email bag trying to answer questions like those posed by noPiano. New members, beginners and those with less experience need your help and advice. Trading experiences and ideas makes this hobby allot of fun.

Much of the advice offered is excellent, often helping to keep this hobby "affordable" for many Diyers. Hence my last 2 posts. Be interesting to see if we can get more contributions posted on this thread.

Please keep posting!

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 31st December 2012 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:07 PM   #20
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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I started composing what fast developed into an epic and self-aggrandizing tale of my journey and struggles in DIY amp and speaker building over the past dozen or so years, and the various steps and revelations in the downsizing process but realized - who gives a rip?

What it did remind me of is that I came to appreciate the merits of thin solid speaker wire concurrently with my foray into the territory of low power tube amplification and single driver "mostly" full-range speakers - often, but not always BLH designs. There's an intimacy and directness of these combinations that is quite synergistic. Large, multiway systems with complex XOs, lower efficiency drivers and / or very large rooms / long loop lengths will need different solutions, which may well include thicker, stranded cabling.



Poor noPiano - quite an introduction to the wonderful world of DIY

happy new year! - remember, party responsibly, turn on private browsing, and delete all cookies
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