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Old 27th November 2012, 08:53 PM   #1
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Default Future woofer production

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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Personally, the twin box did allot better than I expected. I reckon its worth a build, especially for cross-over stereo/HT. Imaging 4 of these + a CHR sealed centre box, could be very nice HT me reckons.

Cheers
Mark.
Speaking of HT, as such a system would require some kind of woofer, is this an inopportune occasion to ask if you have a replacement or new issue of the EL166 / Woofer6 on the drawing boards? I've used them very successfully at least once ( I can't even remember how many enclosures/ types I've built anymore), and thought they provided excellent value,

oops, too late , and apologies if this has already been answered (see parenthesis above)
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Last edited by markaudio; 28th November 2012 at 12:18 AM. Reason: topic alignment
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Speaking of HT, as such a system would require some kind of woofer, is this an inopportune occasion to ask if you have a replacement or new issue of the EL166 / Woofer6 on the drawing boards? I've used them very successfully at least once ( I can't even remember how many enclosures/ types I've built anymore), and thought they provided excellent value,

oops, too late , and apologies if this has already been answered (see parenthesis above)
Hi Chris, guys,
We have a woofer design on the drawing board + some early prototypes. The challenge is more to do with market conditions. There's no shortage of cheap 5.25" to 6.5" woofs. While Woof No6 (EL166) sales did OK, for us to compete in this market segment, we need larger volume sales to maintain a lower competitive price. Markaudio is a "David" facing allot of "Goliaths" in this part of the driver market. We don't have the resources to compete with the big boys unless a large volume order is on the table. We're talking about 3000 units up.

For existing dealers like Madisound, they might support us, but naturally they have to consider their existing brands/makers, whom they have longstanding relationships. I'd hope they'd give our woofer a go but I doubt they'd commit to a large order volume.

So for us to build a woofer would be a large commercial risk which would only yield low margins, requiring large volume production runs. In all, with the current world economic situation (fiscal cliffs etc), risk is high.

Would I like to built the woofer, yes very much, but not at the expense of pushing Markaudio over a cliff. All this is in the hands of Diyaudio members and other end users. If enough make calls to dealers asking for a Markaudio woofer, then supply confidence could be boosted.

Cheers
Mark.
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Old 27th November 2012, 11:43 PM   #3
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Guys,
Some more thought for you.

The old Woof 6 (EL166) gained a reputation as a decent driver for the money. Allot of forum members positively commented on its flat response making it easy to design cross-overs and partner with a variety of tweets. This driver was designed to meet the feedback requests from Diyaudio members, who wanted an near flat response versatile woof. Many of you commented on this performance feature in preference to the many other cheap woofs on the market, most of which had peaks of various sorts in their output.

In retrospect, we'd naturally believe Woof 6 (EL166) sales should be high (several thousand units at least). While they sold OK, we didn't get the order volumes that would have encouraged further builds. To do that, we'd need to do business with companies like Parts Express. Such large sized distributors haven't shown an interest in doing business with Markaudio. I wouldn't want to do business with these big distributors for the full range drivers. Possibly OK for a woof and our new tweeter business, but their price/purchasing policies usually are too tight for us to make viable production. I also have to consider our current supply relationships. Companies like Madisound have given Markaudio allot of support, so my loyalty to Brian/Adam and all the Madisound team is very strong, something that I won't let go.

The market is saturated with woofs. I suspect that most of the buyers, unlike most members of Diyaudio, have limited design/build knowledge, so end up sticking to the large brands as a matter of comfort. Sadly, there's allot of "marketing spin" on many audio products, much of which attracts buyers with limited knowledge.

Personally, I feel more comfortable here on Diyaudio where we all connect, sharing ideas and knowledge, so Markaudio driver design/builds better incorporate the needs of users. This way of working likely excludes Markaudio from super-sized audio distribution business. Having a maker who's in direct contact with end-users is likely uncomfortable for these types of distributor.

Hope this gives members more insight into the complex commercial side of the audio business.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 27th November 2012 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 28th November 2012, 12:51 AM   #4
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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Dear Santa,

Questions or suggestions? I have a suggestion...?

It depends on your application? Mid bass or just BAAASS. A 6 mid/bass + tweeter, or 8 mid/bass + tweeter OR something to compliment your full range drivers?

I personally aren't interested in more mid/bass drivers for application with tweeter. Yawn zzzzz

I'd want something to combine with your Alpair 7 or the A6 for example, in like in an inverted 2 way. Something less conventional. I'd look for a sexy woofer's woofer. Burly but not too burly. Large diameter voice coil, good dynamic control. Like a Morel, but with lower power handling, something to match your full range. This might expand your niche?

Or what about a 12 inch woofer(s) for open baffle. Like from the Jamo 907. Now you're talkin'. Do a kit, XO solution: 2 x 12' in OB with an A7 or a 6. mmmmmm that would be fun.

Thank you Santa.
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Old 28th November 2012, 12:58 AM   #5
rjb is offline rjb  New Zealand
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Mark, you are right. There is a lot of competition for conventional round drivers. What about looking outside the square,(or should I say round), to something to fit different boxes better. I realise shapes like ovals are more difficult to design and probably more costly to build, but there could be a market for them.
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Old 28th November 2012, 01:55 AM   #6
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Good Evening Mark,

Here's my thought? I know there's a lot of other woofer companys out there that have been doing the woofer tweeter thing for years right? Well here's the catch. A lot of these companys have cut corners and have gone soft with there products. They have Cheapened the over all drivers's design and preformance ( If I spelled that right?) and I have yet to buy the right woofer. Everytime I got to look and buy a woofer I am no longer able to buy the drivers. Then the driver's company have changed the driver's so much it push's me away not to buy. I know you said you had to make 3,000 units right? Why not try making 100 units and asking madisound to try them? I would be willing to buy a pair of them? I wish I could help you in some way? I can say this Mark I am planning on going to the Axponia show March 8th thru the 10th 2013. If you sell me a pair of woofers I can make a box and show them off at the show with the speaker cable company I work for. If you have tweeters I can use them as well with the woofers? Again trying to help a brother out. If not I am planning on taking your Alpairs 7's in a (T.L.) box designed for this driver only from a new friend I made who sells your drivers. Again thanks for all you Mark. Jm
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Old 28th November 2012, 01:59 AM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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yah, it kinda sucks when the laws of physics and or current economics get in the way of DIYers pipe dreams

we gotta keep remembering to thank our lucky stars for the (very few) folks like Mark who endeavor to cater to this niche market, and actually communicate directly with the end users - it ain't always perfect, but since all involved are only human ....
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Old 28th November 2012, 03:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMBoZ View Post
I'd want something to combine with your Alpair 7 or the A6 for example, in like in an inverted 2 way.
Hear hear - I know it's way outside the realm of what you've built thus far, but it'd be really nice to see you take Dave's "FAST" concept and embrace it with a suitable woofer of your own...6.5-8", fs of maybe 35Hz, lowish qts (say, < 0.4) and not rolling off the top until perhaps 1kHz, just to keep those who like low-order crossovers happy.

Hmm, I seem to have described the SDX7 / Extremis 6.8 / Exodus Anarchy there, but those are all discontinued now, so they're hardly competition.
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Old 28th November 2012, 06:15 AM   #9
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by TheSeekerr View Post
Hear hear - I know it's way outside the realm of what you've built thus far, but it'd be really nice to see you take Dave's "FAST" concept and embrace it with a suitable woofer of your own...6.5-8", fs of maybe 35Hz, lowish qts (say, < 0.4) and not rolling off the top until perhaps 1kHz, just to keep those who like low-order crossovers happy.

Hmm, I seem to have described the SDX7 / Extremis 6.8 / Exodus Anarchy there, but those are all discontinued now, so they're hardly competition.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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Old 28th November 2012, 07:03 AM   #10
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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I like oval-shaped woofers, and smooth response minimizing crossover work.
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