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Old 15th January 2013, 08:36 PM   #71
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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Every speaker is compromised, a FR driver has its own set, a multiway a different set. Both appeal, or are appropriate, and depend on the user.Isn't your system a MA based multiway?
I'm not supposed to be posting...but fair enough, correct I guess. I chose, I bought into MA while 'shopping' for wide range. If I was shopping for a compact 2-way kit, I guess the 'MA8' would/could be a contender. I have no concern about the integrity of what MA come up with. I'm just more concerned about what a 2-way says about the relevance of a full range when both come from the same manufacturer/brand. The 'flavour' of Mark Audio now comes with a tweeter. For me it's like a 4 door AWD Porsche. Porsche is the 911. For me personally, in my mind, MA is 'contemporary full/wide range'. Part of what was different about MA is being lost.
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Old 15th January 2013, 09:00 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Studio Au View Post
@Chris,

I spotted this the other day:
<image removed to save space>
Alpair 10 Base Wide - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers
"The Alpair 10 bass-wide driver. It's all about the bass with this driver. We set out to make this unit to deliver a solid, rich and most of all, a detailed sound without the need to operate at high volumes. The compliance of this driver suits listeners who genuinely love music and require real detail, not simply a low range thump. This is not a rock and roll driver, there's plenty of those already available.
The Alpair 10 is ideal for audiophile uses, multi-media and multi-channel applications."
I was thinking more along the lines of "you can thrash this around a bit, it'll be fine", which isn't the message I got from the above blurb.

For example, a single Woofer #6 per side took on an 833a SET in a room 20m by 10m. The estimates came in around 90w/ch, and cone excursion was not-inconsiderable. The drivers didn't complain at all, just let the music through.

I think something like that again, where there's no need to worry about damaging super-thin cones, would be worthwhile.

Of course, the market is full of such drivers, which is why I suggest keeping it (on appearance, at least) similar to the Alpair drivers so far: I'd say quite a strong MA theme is that bright copper cone, so it'd make sense to keep that going.

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Old 15th January 2013, 10:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by TiMBoZ View Post
For me it's like a 4 door AWD Porsche. Porsche is the 911.
Ah yes, the machine P. J. O'Rourke described as an '***-engined Nazi slot-car.' That blighted thing should've been put out to pasture thirty years ago. I loathe 911s. Not that I have any liking for the Panamera which resembles a beached whale. Or, as Clarkson accurately described it, the Cockster. Or the Cayenne for that matter. Exactly how vacuous does your life have to be for you to want to buy something that looks like a puffer fish that has been smacked in the face by a haddock? People of taste buy Range Rovers. Or they did, until they started adding more chrome to the front end than you'd find in Liberace's toilet.

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For me personally, in my mind, MA is 'contemporary full/wide range'. Part of what was different about MA is being lost.
Since the tweeters and 'woofers' (actually a midbass with little resemblence to what is usually defined as a woofer) have been with us for the best part of three years, this feeling must have started a while ago.

MA is ultimately a business which needs to make a profit. On that score, Mark will no doubt build what people want, providing it's commercially viable for him to do so. The trouble is, what people say they want and what they actually want are often two different things. Either that, or certain aspects get lost in translation.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 15th January 2013 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 15th January 2013, 10:04 PM   #74
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I have to disagree about the porsche. Really one of the finest sports cars available, period. My friends Lotus is equally fun, but not quite as attractive. The RR are nice, if you can keep them on the road. Shame considering the cost.
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Old 15th January 2013, 11:36 PM   #75
wron is offline wron  Canada
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Re the tweets, at this moment they're heading for Japan but should become available to other regions in the coming months, hence part of the consideration of a new woofer.

Cheers
Mark.
It looks like a copper metal mid-bass would be the most sensible product since it is likely to be twinned with this tweeter - an "A12BW" (bass-wide). I think, as with the previous A10BW, this would still be a unique enough product - a metal-coned woofer that be easily crossed over with a tweeter without having to resort to notch filters or steep crossover filters.
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Old 16th January 2013, 12:27 AM   #76
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Theoretically a nice idea, assuming of course that the tweeter is efficient enough to do it; we won't know until Mark is in a position to publish the details. Tweeters should IMO have a reasonable efficiency margin over and above the midbass units they are likely to be paired with to facilitate effective XO design. 2-3dB at least. When they're ~the same, this starts to impose restrictions, although it's often possible to work around it. Midbass more efficient than the tweeter? That pretty much rules out using the latter at all, unless you can cross very low indeed, which only a few tweeters can realistically handle, and then usually only if you go to town on the XO (HD behaviour & plots in these cases are vital, since FR & impedance data alone don't give sufficient information). As in very steep order slopes, which have their own problems, not least in terms of component cost, but also have acoustical tradeoffs in terms of increased group-delay, and poorer power-handling immediately above the transition band.

I don't much like the copper shade myself -it reminds me of American newsreaders, and those on local UK news programmes. I prefer the softer champagne & gunmetal shades myself, although I suspect I'm in the minority on this.

PS: I still think the old workhorse 911 should've been pensioned off ~1980. I know, I know, the unique challenge & all that. Still don't like them. Give me front engine, RWD any day. Preferably not with an Aston badge attached.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 16th January 2013 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 16th January 2013, 01:20 AM   #77
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If someone gave me a Vantage Roadster i wouldn't complain (or any other one for that matter).

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Old 16th January 2013, 01:41 AM   #78
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If someone gave you a Vantage roadster Scott would complain. Somebody would, for certain. I would accept a Cayman coupe, also for certain. Now back to topic??
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Old 16th January 2013, 02:27 AM   #79
wron is offline wron  Canada
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
I don't much like the copper shade myself -it reminds me of American newsreaders, and those on local UK news programmes. I prefer the softer champagne & gunmetal shades myself, although I suspect I'm in the minority on this.
Cosmetically speaking, I'm not a fan of the coppertone - I prefer a more subdued monochromatic approach - anodized black metal woofer and tweeter or my previous suggestion: all natural (white) paper woofer, surround and frame and a Markaudio exclusive, MAOP metal tweeter
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Old 16th January 2013, 07:58 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by phivates View Post
If someone gave you a Vantage roadster Scott would complain. Somebody would, for certain. I would accept a Cayman coupe, also for certain. Now back to topic??
OT is good, on occasion. Keeps us all fresh. I'd reject both. Or accept both & immediately sell them. Anonymously, and from a distance, so people couldn't see it was me. The former is driven by footballers & people who think they look like James Bond (I could cope with a DB9). 90% of the latter are unfortunately driven by pillocks. Usually in The City. Which is enough to put anyone of taste in the UK off.

Now, Jaguar, on the other hand...

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Cosmetically speaking, I'm not a fan of the coppertone - I prefer a more subdued monochromatic approach - anodized black metal woofer and tweeter or my previous suggestion: all natural (white) paper woofer, surround and frame and a Markaudio exclusive, MAOP metal tweeter
Something more subtle would probably have a slightly wider appeal, although the current brighter copper units seem to have been accepted happily enough. Just goes to show how subjective such things are. But then, I don't like (current) Aston Martin's or Porsche's either, so I'm evidently mad. Either way, I'm more interested in the performance of the units though.

Midbass, I'd like an extended useful BW without any shelving, lifts or breakup modes at the top end (since they all mean extra work filtering them out in the XO, adding complexity), and reasonable efficiency: ~87 - 89dB. A bit like the existing one. A nice shallow cone profile to aid off-axis dispersion wouldn't go amiss. If it's paper and concentric rings like the original unit are on the cards, I'd say go for it if it keeps price reasonable; they do the job of controlling cone resonance behaviour as well now as they did eighty years ago when Bell Labs introduced them, and they make it look interesting since it seems many manufacturers have shied away from them in recent years, at least for home audio applications.

Tweeter, I'd like to see ~90dB - 92dB 1m/2.83v output a la some of the quality Seas, Vifa, Scan Speak units etc., so it's useful in a wide variety of situations. Not much point in rubbing ones' hands in satisfaction thinking 'roight, that thar be the low efficiency tweeter market sown up' when very few people are likely to buy a low efficiency tweeter from precisely that reason: it's a low efficiency tweeter, and therefore, for most multiway driver buyers, useless.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 16th January 2013 at 08:04 AM.
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