Future woofer production

[Rullknufs]

I'm actually disappointed at myself for not buying a pair of EL166 (or why not four, they were so cheap!). Dave and Chris tried to convince me but I was dumb not to listen.

If they come back again, or a very similar one, for the same price as before I will buy some.

[zman01]

Originally Posted by Rullknufs

Dave and Chris tried to convince me but I was dumb not to listen.

If they come back again, or a very similar one, for the same price as before I will buy some.

Niklas, IIRC I suggested at least once too. The FAST designs with 2 MA Woofer#6/cabinet look good, and according to those who have heard them, sound plenty good.

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by Rullknufs

I'm actually disappointed at myself for not buying a pair of EL166 (or why not four, they were so cheap!). Dave and Chris tried to convince me but I was dumb not to listen.

If they come back again, or a very similar one, for the same price as before I will buy some.

Originally Posted by zman01

Niklas, IIRC I suggested at least once too. The FAST designs with 2 MA Woofer#6/cabinet look good, and according to those who have heard them, sound plenty good.

hindsight is always perfect - there are other very nice mid-woofers available - depending on your location - Fountek, Peerless, SilverFlute, TangBand, Visaton etc

[chris661]

While we're throwing ideas around,

coaxial speakers?

I'm thinking get something similar to the woofer #6, maybe an 8" version, and mount a smallish (~1") dome tweeter in the middle, right at the bottom of the cone (similar to KEF - I'm not keen on the tweeter-on-a-stick method car speakers use).

Crossover in the 2-4kHz region, and you've got a point source speaker that has the potential to rock.
It might be easy to make midbass-only versions (with ~matching T/S parameters) for bigger arrays like Colin's: turn it into a 2.5 way, crossing the extra woofer(s) at baffle-step.

Might be something to consider: there doesn't appear to be so much competition there.

Chris

[phivates]

I have 3/4ths of a pair of those KEFs, the early ones with the small dome in the middle. Trouble is the woofer coil gave up the ghost. So I vote for a coax. Like my Fostex only friendlier. Build quality is paramount. And thanks Mark.

[blakkshepeaudio]

A thorny problem indeed.

Only Mark knows what his business model really allows. It is great that he is asking the most vocal part of his userbase (DIYAudio folks) what their needs are, but the community here is only a part of his wider customer universe. It must be very difficult to navigate the minefields of existing products, fashion and user requests of unknown sales potential.

Good luck, mate, and thanks so much for keeping us in the loop.

I gather from your comments Mark that some of your 'Best / Most Loved / Most Mainstream' products (Woof 6, Tweet 3, EL70 and even the CSS FR125's) did not enjoy sufficient commercial cuccess to justify continuing their production.

If that's the case, then for my money, your best bet is to stay pretty niche-y while expanding the range of applications your drivers can fill.
So, larger (up to 200mm) wideranges, with a dedicated tweeter (even a modified Tweet3 - already goes to 30kHz) and a reference crossover. Easy. Maybe you could even make and sell the crossovers. Maybe a dedicated bass driver with higher power handling and Alpair-like tech for the FAST fans, with T/S parameters to give fantastic LF in small boxes, sacrificing sensitivity as required to meet up with nominated Alpairs or CHR's.

You would simply have to adjust the prices to reflect the expected limited sales. Your products have never been criticised for being overpriced (not that I have seen anyway) so if you have to load the prices then so be it.

If they sell up a storm then, hey !, make another batch and pocket the profit. It could offset your development costs.

In fact, if the development and tooling have already been written off, why NOT make some more Woof 6's and EL70's? Maybe pre-sell through an auction system, or expressions of interest? Make a few more quid from your existing (and apparently in-demand) back catalogue?

The things that have stayed my hand from committing to the MA-Way have been to do with 'punishability'. The CHR and Alpair drivers seem to fit a fairly narrow niche, hence their success, and also their limitations in sales. But my customers also want some 'welly' and don't want their speaker cones to crinkle if they get frisky with their THX surround amp.

A somewhat bigger driver with higher power handling and more overload tolerance (and a tweeter if necessary - if the driver makes a good 10k then a single capacitor x-over is a no brainer) or an LF driver designed to match the existing wideranges seem the simplest directions to me.


Years ago I did some work comparing the (excursion versus power) linearity of some good drivers.
My favourite Dynaudio 24W75's had fair linearity which flattened out as the excursion increased, giving a kind of natural 'compression' to their dynamics, albeit at quite high levels. No matter how hard you caned them, they just compressed more and never really hit the end. Until they blew up, presumably.
The SEAS Excel bass drivers I also tested were much more linear but folded over much less gracefully when pushed. They worked OK in a 3 way but the system that used them got very thin sounding when pushed.

My point is that if your target audience is SE triode or 1875 Gainclone users then your existing products hit the spot very well. If that market is big enough then, great, don't change a thing.

If you want to expand your market, then viable, robust system combinations are the future.

Hope this makes sense,

Kind regards and genuine best wishes

theblakkwidow

p.s. is Derek still making his miniwatt amps? Went to buy one but the website is gone...

[Scottmoose]

Sadly, I get the feeling we'll never see the midbass again, unless somebody is willing to stump up funds for a run of at least (at least) 1,000 units. Me, I'd like to see it, although a better frame would be preferable. Frame aside, I wouldn't otherwise waste time & money making further changes. All a bit academic though unless a supplier orders a reasonable quantity.

[Toppsy]

I'm whole heartedly with Scott on this one. If the Woofer #6 dosen't get built then I shall have to look for another replacement driver for my speakers. That will be a real shame as the W6 is one hell of a mid-woofer performance wise.

[Scottmoose]

Agreed. It beats all the 6 1/2in midbass units in its price bracket that I've had any experience with. It's a shame the commercial realities of midbass driver production are so unforgiving for Mark as it's really a very good drive unit indeed. You can beat it, but you really need to spend a fair bit more IMO. Ironic really. If it was given a prettier frame & tag marked 'Dayton', 'Seas' or similar, they'd probably have sold like the proverbial hot cakes.

FWIW (nothing) I'm not convinced a coax would be the way forward in the medium term. Not that there isn't a lack of them: there is. But it's a major shift in engineering & design compared to the current products, & would likely consume a lot of resources.

[zman01]

I think Scott has pretty much nailed it - these units were pretty modest looking. Understand that Mark designs his products with superior performance in mind, and that was the key consideration; however in case of Woof #6 aka EL-166, a better looking frame would have probably attracted more interest and may have helped sales. We can only guess though...