Future woofer production

[fastbike1]

You also described a number of current Peerless HDS, ScanSpeak and SB Acoustics drivers, thus making Mark's point.

Originally Posted by TheSeekerr

Hear hear - I know it's way outside the realm of what you've built thus far, but it'd be really nice to see you take Dave's "FAST" concept and embrace it with a suitable woofer of your own...6.5-8", fs of maybe 35Hz, lowish qts (say, < 0.4) and not rolling off the top until perhaps 1kHz, just to keep those who like low-order crossovers happy.

Hmm, I seem to have described the SDX7 / Extremis 6.8 / Exodus Anarchy there, but those are all discontinued now, so they're hardly competition.

[KyleinCowichan]

Hi Mark,

I heard the EL166 for the first time at the 2011 DIY Fest that Planet 10 hosts and it was a real winner. By the time I had chosen to try and get a pair I think they were already in short supply. I was late to the party, as per usual. Luckily Dave had a pair in this year's raffle!

The examples of a full range driver and a woofer combination (FAST) that I have heard have blown me away. It's a combination that I am going to be build for my personal use. Perhaps having a woofer to pair with one of the already well-known full range drivers and some accessible designs implementing them will help spur sales?

Thanks,
Kyle

[planet10]

Originally Posted by cotdt

I like oval-shaped woofers, and smooth response minimizing crossover work.

I certainly find the shape of the KEF B139 allurring.

dave

[TheSeekerr]

Originally Posted by chrisb

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Quite right, but the question is this: If the design works so well (and the three drivers I mentioned are all pretty much identical, except that CSS put a bit more work into the SDX7's top end), why do companies that make it keep disappearing? (Well, except CSS, but even they discontinued it)

(The Exodus Anarchy's TS parameters look quite different at a glance, but I recall that it models uncannily similarly regardless)

Originally Posted by fastbike1

You also described a number of current Peerless HDS, ScanSpeak and SB Acoustics drivers, thus making Mark's point.

And a Tangband, and....yes, I know there are other woofers. I'd still be interested to see what Mark would produce if he went in that direction....consider my musings more of a prompt than a spec sheet.

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by TheSeekerr

Quite right, but the question is this: If the design works so well (and the three drivers I mentioned are all pretty much identical, except that CSS put a bit more work into the SDX7's top end), why do companies that make it keep disappearing? (Well, except CSS, but even they discontinued it)

well, the listed drivers are not so identical, but IINM they do share the same designer bloodline ( Dan Wiggins XBL) - as to the second "why" - a lotta stuff happens in the business side that never makes the light of day

[Toppsy]

KyleinCowichan wrote

I heard the EL166 for the first time at the 2011 DIY Fest that Planet 10 hosts and it was a real winner. By the time I had chosen to try and get a pair I think they were already in short supply.

That most likely would be because I bought up most (if not all) the available stock for my Edingdale speaker builds. Which are these:



The original Woofer #6 (EL166) is a truely wonderful mid woofer and I for one would buy a couple of boxes (9 pairs per box?) of any new replacements. I am running out of the originals having built around 9-pairs of the Edingdale speakers for folk with another pair on the building bench at the moment.

It would be a great shame if a new production run failed to appear. I for one would have to seek a suitable driver as I still have enquiries for these speakers. The only remit I would ask for in the new driver is not to change anything regards the cone and sound. An improved frame and mounting would be top of my list and perhaps if the Vas(?) could be changed so the drivers could be used in a smaller vented cabinet? The Edingdales use 4 x W6 wired series/parrallel to maintain a nominal 8-ohm load and are in 80L vented cabs. Modelling suggests the optimum be around 110L which really is on the over-large size for most domestic setups and WAF!

For those not familiar with the perfomance of the W6 here's what one of the guys had to say about the Edingdales i made for him:

Colin,

I've enough hours spent in front of The Edingdales now to warrant jotting down a few thoughts and sharing them with you.
The arrangement of the lounge in my small terraced house dictates positioning above all other factors, which results in the rear face of the speakers being only an inch from an exterior wall but I am able to separate them by three meters and listen centrally from four meters. My ears are level with the dust cap on the highest cone. I have the ribbons attenuated by 5dB. The spikes go through the carpet and underlay and into concrete. The top surface of the boxes is square by spirit level, and toe-in, which I have not yet experimented with adjusting, is perhaps 5 degrees or so. By the way, do you know the horizontal dispersion angle of the tweeter?

I've run test tones and can hear upto 18kHz with ease at lower than 80db(A) and above 20kHz at higher SPLs. I'm guessing that the XO frequency is in the region of 3kHz. These tests suggest that response begins to fall off at about 40Hz in my room but I can hear a 20Hz sine wave clearly.

I'm of the opinion that the transducers in a hi-fi system contribute most significantly to sound quality and, of those, the loudspeaker is the critical component. I have worked internationally in audio production for twenty years and in that time have listened to many drivers and cabinet combinations in reinforcement, monitoring and playback contexts. For the playback of pre recorded mastered material, The Edingdale is the speaker that I would choose to listen to music through above all of the others that I have heard. The cohesive response of the driver array in your cabinets provides a musical coherence that betters, to my tastes, all of the other designs that I have owned or demonstrated.

The soundstaging ability, even though the drivers are not heard as a point source in my arrangement, equals the wonderful sonic signature.

The Edingdales have the 'magic' that I have sought for many years and to say that I am a delighted owner, is an understatement.

This should I hope persuade you guys that the a new Woofer #6 is definitely one you should try.

[cotdt]

Instead of MarkAudio making woofers in a saturated market, I think it would be better to make supertweeters specific to their own larger fullrange drivers. In a smaller room, the larger fullrange units will have room gain at lower and mid frequencies but not at the upper frequencies. Supertweeters can be especially useful in this scenario. The supertweeter would have spec'ed capacitor value for its respective fullrange pairing.

[chrisb]

Originally Posted by cotdt

Instead of MarkAudio making woofers in a saturated market, I think it would be better to make supertweeters specific to their own larger fullrange drivers. In a smaller room, the larger fullrange units will have room gain at lower and mid frequencies but not at the upper frequencies. Supertweeters can be especially useful in this scenario. The supertweeter would have spec'ed capacitor value for its respective fullrange pairing.

While we've not smoked through as many units as Colin, I can attest that the Woofer6 / EL166 is a helluva value. The marketplace at which DIYers shop is not saturated with drivers that are as versatile at such a low cost, and moreover designer / manufacturers who engage in public forum conversations or seek input on driver development. I think there's quite a few folks who'd be happy if Mark were to resurrect or update this particular model. Then there's that 70mm full range black paper cone ....

[KyleinCowichan]

Originally Posted by Toppsy

KyleinCowichan wrote

That most likely would be because I bought up most (if not all) the available stock for my Edingdale speaker builds. Which are these:

4 per side will do that, I suppose!

KM

[dekiller]

Something like 15"/18" drivers for OB configuration to match your Alpair series should be a good idea.