Alpair 10 vs Alpair 7 - Open baffle with boxed woofer. Passive Xover. - diyAudio
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Old 16th August 2012, 11:58 PM   #1
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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Default Alpair 10 vs Alpair 7 - Open baffle with boxed woofer. Passive Xover.

Hi All,

I'm new, this is my first post. Please forgive me if this is a dumb or unreasonable question.

I'm interested in combining open, zero baffle Alpair 10 or 7 driver as a mid/tweet in a 2 way combined with a boxed woofer with simple 1st order passive cover. Woofer in either bass reflex, TQWT or sealed box with passive xover.

Is it possible to guestimate/usefully predict the low frequency extension of each of these drivers when used in this configuration? ie: no box, no baffle, no room. How low will each driver play?

Anyone care to assist/guestimate?

Thank you
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Old 19th August 2012, 09:55 PM   #2
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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My best guestimate for Alpair 10 is xover @ 400Hz

Alpair 7 is xover @ 600Hz.

I'm experimenting with an Alpair 10 now. I'm wondering what a 7 might be like. Might be a slightly better choice when combined with a 6 inch woofer. Might just have to just try some and see.
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Old 20th August 2012, 02:30 AM   #3
jimbro is offline jimbro  United States
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I can't help you choose the correct crossover but I will say that the lower the better IMO. I understand that the A10 is more forgiving of source than the A7 but when it's good it's very good. Not sure why the size of the woofer would favor one over the other. Some more info might help like what woofer and what kinds of source.
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Old 20th August 2012, 05:00 AM   #4
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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I remember seeing a sim that basically put xover for an open baffle A-10 rolling off at 400Hz no matter what size the baffle was. The 10 is 8 grams. It's more of a woofer than the A-7 which is 4 grams. I think the 7 will have a higher sweet spot a better high end. The 10 is great but the very top end is a little stiff/recessed. The 7 might be a better choice when used strictly as a mid/tweeter. High passed above 400 - 600Hz. Some may argue that a larger membrane will better for vocals. There will be trade offs either way I guess. Has anyone made a comparison between an A-10 and A-7? Care to share your observations?
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Old 20th August 2012, 04:00 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMBoZ View Post
I remember seeing a sim that basically put xover for an open baffle A-10 rolling off at 400Hz no matter what size the baffle was. The 10 is 8 grams. It's more of a woofer than the A-7 which is 4 grams. I think the 7 will have a higher sweet spot a better high end. The 10 is great but the very top end is a little stiff/recessed. The 7 might be a better choice when used strictly as a mid/tweeter.
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Quote:
High passed above 400 - 600Hz. Some may argue that a larger membrane will better for vocals. There will be trade offs either way I guess. Has anyone made a comparison between an A-10 and A-7? Care to share your observations?
not in an OB array such as contemplated here, but in a range of enclosures from small resistively vented stand mounters, to floor length MLTLs, and BLH, IMO the 7 stands above the 10 in several areas; vocals, depth of soundstage field and low level textural details - but not bass - the 10 is quite amazing in that respect.

However, since you've already indicated this to be a 2-way, I'd highly recommend the 7, and XO no higher than around 300 - no reason to throw away what it does so well.


As to choice of an appropriate woofer to support either of these drivers in an OB configuration, a popular choice has been the Eminence in MJK's project.
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Last edited by chrisb; 20th August 2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 20th August 2012, 05:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMBoZ View Post
zero baffle
This is the limiting factor. Dipole rooloff will start much higher than where you would really like to have the XO.

dave
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Old 20th August 2012, 10:11 PM   #7
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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The 'open' sound is kind of addictive. I have a Morel 636 in a TQWT XO 6db to an 'open' A-10 @ 400Hz (approx). Alpair roughly 20mm vertically offset behind woofer for time alignment. Imagine a 2 way Vandersteen kind of thing. The Morel is a gr8 WOOFER. Very clean, very dynamic, very tuneful. But it's a woofer's woofer, does it's best work below 600Hz say. If I go to 600Hz XO does the A-7 then become the better driver for the job? Will the extra membrane area & motor size of A-10 be wasted at 600Hz or is it needed in context of keeping the xover point low as possible?
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Old 21st August 2012, 08:23 PM   #8
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMBoZ View Post
The 'open' sound is kind of addictive. I have a Morel 636 in a TQWT XO 6db to an 'open' A-10 @ 400Hz (approx). Alpair roughly 20mm vertically offset behind woofer for time alignment. Imagine a 2 way Vandersteen kind of thing. The Morel is a gr8 WOOFER. Very clean, very dynamic, very tuneful. But it's a woofer's woofer, does it's best work below 600Hz say. If I go to 600Hz XO does the A-7 then become the better driver for the job? Will the extra membrane area & motor size of A-10 be wasted at 600Hz or is it needed in context of keeping the xover point low as possible?

If all the lifting from lower mid-bass on down is served out to competent drivers, Alpair7 would be my choice.

Disclaimer - I've not heard any of the Mark Audio drivers in an OB configuration
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Old 28th August 2012, 08:09 PM   #9
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TiMBoZ ,

Hello and welcome!

Now down too business, OB's are excellentno argument from me there, in fact my preference. Me and some friends have experimented with OB's for years and most recently with the Alpair 12P driver. My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!

Here are some photos of OB's thrown together quickly too get break in etc until finer woodworking happens. I use crossover @135-170 on subwoofer plate amps, nothing on 12P. Nocrossover is the best crossover, less parts for purest possible sound if you can manage.

Ramon
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Alpair 12P OB small test baffles.jpg (424.9 KB, 1116 views)
File Type: jpg Alpair 12P OB test panel.jpg (548.4 KB, 1068 views)
File Type: jpg My 12P OB Front view.jpg (321.9 KB, 1039 views)
File Type: jpg My 12P OB Back view.jpg (407.6 KB, 1019 views)
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Old 28th August 2012, 08:53 PM   #10
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Verdi View Post
TiMBoZ ,

Hello and welcome!

Now down too business, OB's are excellentno argument from me there, in fact my preference. Me and some friends have experimented with OB's for years and most recently with the Alpair 12P driver. My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!

Here are some photos of OB's thrown together quickly too get break in etc until finer woodworking happens. I use crossover @135-170 on subwoofer plate amps, nothing on 12P. Nocrossover is the best crossover, less parts for purest possible sound if you can manage.

Ramon

wouldn't you be worried about over excursion with the 12Ps running full bandwidth in this application?
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