Alpair 10 vs Alpair 7 - Open baffle with boxed woofer. Passive Xover.

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Hi All,

I'm new, this is my first post. Please forgive me if this is a dumb or unreasonable question.

I'm interested in combining open, zero baffle Alpair 10 or 7 driver as a mid/tweet in a 2 way combined with a boxed woofer with simple 1st order passive cover. Woofer in either bass reflex, TQWT or sealed box with passive xover.

Is it possible to guestimate/usefully predict the low frequency extension of each of these drivers when used in this configuration? ie: no box, no baffle, no room. How low will each driver play?

Anyone care to assist/guestimate?

Thank you
 
My best guestimate for Alpair 10 is xover @ 400Hz

Alpair 7 is xover @ 600Hz.

I'm experimenting with an Alpair 10 now. I'm wondering what a 7 might be like. Might be a slightly better choice when combined with a 6 inch woofer. Might just have to just try some and see.
 
I can't help you choose the correct crossover but I will say that the lower the better IMO. I understand that the A10 is more forgiving of source than the A7 but when it's good it's very good. Not sure why the size of the woofer would favor one over the other. Some more info might help like what woofer and what kinds of source.
 
I remember seeing a sim that basically put xover for an open baffle A-10 rolling off at 400Hz no matter what size the baffle was. The 10 is 8 grams. It's more of a woofer than the A-7 which is 4 grams. I think the 7 will have a higher sweet spot a better high end. The 10 is great but the very top end is a little stiff/recessed. The 7 might be a better choice when used strictly as a mid/tweeter. High passed above 400 - 600Hz. Some may argue that a larger membrane will better for vocals. There will be trade offs either way I guess. Has anyone made a comparison between an A-10 and A-7? Care to share your observations?
 
I remember seeing a sim that basically put xover for an open baffle A-10 rolling off at 400Hz no matter what size the baffle was. The 10 is 8 grams. It's more of a woofer than the A-7 which is 4 grams. I think the 7 will have a higher sweet spot a better high end. The 10 is great but the very top end is a little stiff/recessed. The 7 might be a better choice when used strictly as a mid/tweeter.

nail, head - clean strike


High passed above 400 - 600Hz. Some may argue that a larger membrane will better for vocals. There will be trade offs either way I guess. Has anyone made a comparison between an A-10 and A-7? Care to share your observations?
not in an OB array such as contemplated here, but in a range of enclosures from small resistively vented stand mounters, to floor length MLTLs, and BLH, IMO the 7 stands above the 10 in several areas; vocals, depth of soundstage field and low level textural details - but not bass - the 10 is quite amazing in that respect.

However, since you've already indicated this to be a 2-way, I'd highly recommend the 7, and XO no higher than around 300 - no reason to throw away what it does so well.


As to choice of an appropriate woofer to support either of these drivers in an OB configuration, a popular choice has been the Eminence in MJK's project.
 
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The 'open' sound is kind of addictive. I have a Morel 636 in a TQWT XO 6db to an 'open' A-10 @ 400Hz (approx). Alpair roughly 20mm vertically offset behind woofer for time alignment. Imagine a 2 way Vandersteen kind of thing. The Morel is a gr8 WOOFER. Very clean, very dynamic, very tuneful. But it's a woofer's woofer, does it's best work below 600Hz say. If I go to 600Hz XO does the A-7 then become the better driver for the job? Will the extra membrane area & motor size of A-10 be wasted at 600Hz or is it needed in context of keeping the xover point low as possible?
 
The 'open' sound is kind of addictive. I have a Morel 636 in a TQWT XO 6db to an 'open' A-10 @ 400Hz (approx). Alpair roughly 20mm vertically offset behind woofer for time alignment. Imagine a 2 way Vandersteen kind of thing. The Morel is a gr8 WOOFER. Very clean, very dynamic, very tuneful. But it's a woofer's woofer, does it's best work below 600Hz say. If I go to 600Hz XO does the A-7 then become the better driver for the job? Will the extra membrane area & motor size of A-10 be wasted at 600Hz or is it needed in context of keeping the xover point low as possible?


If all the lifting from lower mid-bass on down is served out to competent drivers, Alpair7 would be my choice.

Disclaimer - I've not heard any of the Mark Audio drivers in an OB configuration
 
TiMBoZ ,

Hello and welcome!

Now down too business, OB's are excellent:cool:no argument from me there, in fact my preference. Me and some friends have experimented with OB's for years and most recently with the Alpair 12P driver. My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!

Here are some photos of OB's thrown together quickly too get break in etc until finer woodworking happens. I use crossover @135-170 on subwoofer plate amps, nothing on 12P. No:no:crossover is the best crossover, less parts for purest possible sound if you can manage.

Ramon
 

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TiMBoZ ,

Hello and welcome!

Now down too business, OB's are excellent:cool:no argument from me there, in fact my preference. Me and some friends have experimented with OB's for years and most recently with the Alpair 12P driver. My past experience has been with the Alpair 7.2 which did an outstanding job in an OB configuration in my system for over a year. In all honesty though, the new 12P takes things to a whole other level of performance. Frankly, the highs and extension are every bit as good if not better IMHO than the 7, and the mids, mid-lows and upper low make the bandwidth synergy of the driver exceptional , especially considering price category. I have not heard the 10, so my vote is with the 12P, you will not be sorry as this is one of the finest drivers at any price!

Here are some photos of OB's thrown together quickly too get break in etc until finer woodworking happens. I use crossover @135-170 on subwoofer plate amps, nothing on 12P. No:no:crossover is the best crossover, less parts for purest possible sound if you can manage.

Ramon


wouldn't you be worried about over excursion with the 12Ps running full bandwidth in this application?
 
Chris,

I did have that problem with the A7, have not had that issue with this driver, it's truly an exceptional speaker! Furthermore I listen to large symphonic such as Bruckner, Messiaen etc as well as rock and chamber music. My room is only 14X22 so not big and well damped. Incidentally, in a OB configuration these speakers not only can rock they can handle large symphonic fortissimos comfortably.
 
Chris,

Had that problem with A7 not with 12P, that includes vinyl playback especially. Now I did not mention a few changes to my amp although minor such as a cap change and tube change. Regardless this 12P is a gem. I listen to large symphonic, rock and chamber music with no crossover on drivers. Gain and decibel levels are a non issue in a damped room 14X22 and a OB gives you an open deep soundstage that simply won't happen with A box!
 
The objective is to create something similar (in concept) to the Lola Micro Grand Reference. The baffle needs to be small/narrow as possible. Ribbon tweeter optional. Simple XO network. 6db XO @ 400 from woofer box to open Alpair 10. XO any higher and the 'open' mid starts to become a bit pointless. Mayas well box the mid. May aswell foget the whole 'open' idea. So I'm kind of sticking with the A-10 at this stag. Unless someone can verify low XO point for an A-7 on a minimal baffle. Then just with a helper tweeter to restore the 'air' lost with A-10 (without a dedicated tweeter).
 
The objective is to create something similar (in concept) to the Lola Micro Grand Reference. The baffle needs to be small/narrow as possible. Ribbon tweeter optional. Simple XO network. 6db XO @ 400 from woofer box to open Alpair 10. XO any higher and the 'open' mid starts to become a bit pointless. Mayas well box the mid. May aswell foget the whole 'open' idea. So I'm kind of sticking with the A-10 at this stag. Unless someone can verify low XO point for an A-7 on a minimal baffle. Then just with a helper tweeter to restore the 'air' lost with A-10 (without a dedicated tweeter).

From my experience 22" wide is minimum too avoid mid band suckout. We have built numerous prototypes and found that wings and or wide baffle is the most suitable solution.

Ramon
 
Monti, Is the 12.2 able to match the 7.2 in clarity and imaging. I love the 10.2, but it gets congested on material that the 7.3 handles without problems. Have you considered cheating on the baffle width by angling the two sides back?

Yes, it has every bit the clarity as the 7.2 & 7.3, imaging and soundstage are larger as well. Lastly as I mentioned earlier the 12P has better synergy between highs and lows!

Ramon
 
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